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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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 Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| teenoso wrote: |
However, you say you will leave two weeks before your flight - is that before the end of your contract ? If so, it makes it much more difficult to negotiate an amicable exit, and weakens your moral position , IMO unless there is seriously bad behaviour by them (which you seem reluctant to discuss here). |
teenoso,
The OP said this:
"...The employer is directly telling my students that I am leaving on a specific date, which is before my contract end date and my flight date..."
He's on the moral high ground on this point, but that won't help him because the FAO or boss will probably get his way. I went through this same thing once. The best thing for him to do is to hang onto his passport. He should keep it in his underwear when he's not in the shower. He should not render it to the boss under any circumstances.
The City FAO is your best bet in this case. Forget the tax office and the PSB. You just need to stay in-country until the date of your scheduled departure. Your City FAO can assure this. |
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ohinternet
Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| teenoso wrote: |
| You may not know the real position of these employees - if they're earning under the tax threshold, the employer may not need to worry about tax etc. I suggest not heading to the tax office today/tomorrow . Your employer will hear about your visit , for sure . |
I do know their situation -- they are over the taxable income threshold at their first employer.
| teenoso wrote: |
However, you say you will leave two weeks before your flight - is that before the end of your contract ? If so, it makes it much more difficult to negotiate an amicable exit, and weakens your moral position , IMO unless there is seriously bad behaviour by them (which you seem reluctant to discuss here). |
I[ am not saying that I'll leave China two weeks before my contract ends. That's what my employer is telling the students.
| NoBillyNO wrote: |
| You may find that the tax office will check your passport number .. to insure you have paid taxes, and if they cannot find a record and taxes are due from the company, they may do an investigation but this in no way will help in negotiations. After all, your employer can deal with the tax office at any time and your coming forth as a whistle blower may not be welcomed. Also it maybe possible that the employer is paying a blanket tax to cover those who the tax office does not collect on an individual basis. |
I'm perfectly comfortable with my employer knowing. After all, they are trying take my passport to have my residence permit changed to an L-visa more than 30 days before my contract ends. Their goal is to avoid paying me about 25,000 RMB in end of contract reimbursements, bonuses, etc because they want to save money. |
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ohinternet
Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
| The City FAO is your best bet in this case. Forget the tax office and the PSB. You just need to stay in-country until the date of your scheduled departure. Your City FAO can assure this. |
What is a city FAO? Is this someone at SAFEA? |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| rogerwilco wrote: |
| muffintop wrote: |
Talk to them directly.
Be nice about it and do NOT get angry but find a way to make it clear that any monies owed to you are to be paid in full .... |
A friend of mine in Nanjing was very late in getting paid for some overtime work.
He went to the bosses office at 8am and had a seat. He started to politely chat with her. After about 30 minutes of polite chit-chat the boss finally realized that he was there to stay, and was not leaving without his money.
She made a phone call, and cash was delivered to him in her office. |
Seconded to both of these quotes from RW and MT. This would be the way to go. Visibly getting angry is a bad way to go in Our China and is extremely counterproductive.
I think Bud's words are also wise:
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Keep it low key and act Chinese. That's what they are, that's where you are, and that's the sort of behavior that they can deal with. This is difficult to swallow if you're an American because Americans exercise their rights and air their complaints loudly. The Chinese don't. Don't try to convince them that THEY'RE wrong. Convince them that they are misinformed and that you have the correct information.
Every time I've gone in with guns a'blazin', I've lost. You might want to start with a "Gee, I thought we were friends" approach, even if there's bad blood between you. There are no laws against insincerity. If there were, prisons worldwide would be filled with bosses. |
It may be hard to keep cool, but it's the best way to go. Calm persistence, Jedi Knight.
Oh, I also think it's good that you didn't hand over the passport to 'em. Your visa's in order? No need to then.
Good luck with it all.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| I'm perfectly comfortable with my employer knowing. |
These tax threats are kind of empty, that is my point. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:45 am Post subject: |
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interesting....you said the OTHER teachers are on legit z-visas.
you also said they are over the tax threshold at their FIRST employer.
so.....
which teachers are working second jobs, and where?
what type of visa did you have?
when does your contract end?
when does your RP expire?
when is your flight?
are you planning on returning?
you have the next job lined up? |
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BruceLeeWannaBe
Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 210
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Employer is trying to screw me at the 11th hour |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
| ohinternet wrote: |
| ....before my employer can terminate my residence permit behind my back..... |
your residence permit is in your passport.
can't cancel your RP without your passport.
where is your passport? |
Sunny's English Club in Chengdu, Sichuan was able to cancel out people's resident permits without their passport. I know one guy who they did this to. |
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ohinternet
Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| choudoufu wrote: |
interesting....you said the OTHER teachers are on legit z-visas.
you also said they are over the tax threshold at their FIRST employer.
so.....
which teachers are working second jobs, and where?
what type of visa did you have?
when does your contract end?
when does your RP expire?
when is your flight?
are you planning on returning?
you have the next job lined up? |
Everythig between my employer and I is legit. if anything, my tax rate has been a little too high, which indicates that something may be out of place at our company. I would be more than to have more money in my pocket than in someone else's pocket.
My visa, FEC, and RP are 100% legit, soI have absolutely no concerns about dealing with the government. If anything, I stand to get money back.
My flight is before my RP ends and I have absolutely no problems with employment prospects outside of China. After experinging this maltreatment, I have absolutely no desire to return to this country.
In short, I have absolutely no problem with calling the tax cops to cost my employer 60k RMB plus back taxes and illegal employees quitting in exchange for them trying to screw me on air fare and other end of contract payments. |
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ohinternet
Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| NoBillyNO wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm perfectly comfortable with my employer knowing. |
These tax threats are kind of empty, that is my point. |
That's ok - I've decided not to use them as threats. My Chinese freind, who is an attorney, and I will deliver about 70 pages of class schedules and names to the tax authority in a few days. I don't want to make threats. I want justice. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ohinternet wrote: |
| Bud Powell wrote: |
| The City FAO is your best bet in this case. Forget the tax office and the PSB. You just need to stay in-country until the date of your scheduled departure. Your City FAO can assure this. |
What is a city FAO? Is this someone at SAFEA? |
No. It's not the same thing. The SAFEA is a useless organization (and probably a figment of someone's imagination) that actually prints contracts and conditions that a lot of schools ignore. You cannot speak to anyone at the SAFEA because (in my experience) nobody speaks English there. (If someone actually answers the phone, he is dumbstruck).
If your city has public universities and/or has foreign workers working in foreign or domestic industries, your city has a city Foreign Affairs Office. If you know any young Chinese teachers, ask them where it is located. Better yet, ask where the city's government seat is located. That's usually where their office is located. It's also (often, but not always) located near the main PSB office. Go to the City Hall and wander around like you're lost, and someone who speaks English will tell you where to go. Visit every floor. That's what I did. |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Face it OP - you are going to get screwed and there really is nothing you can do to prevent it. Complain to the police? yeah right let us know how that works out when they laugh in your face.
Complain to SAFRA? Nope...
The tax agency? Got PROOF? No proof and they will go back to shopping on Taobao very quickly.
Smear the school's good name? It has no value because there are plenty of people that will work there and never research the school.
Hire a lawyer... Umm maybe but you won't get much $ in return - if any.
DON'T give them your passport again for any reason.
Try to work something out. Go sit in the bosses office and refuse to leave until you have the airfare bonus in hand. Sit in front of the school and block the door. Protest. Make your voice heard. It may or may not work but what have you got to lose? |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| In short, I have absolutely no problem with calling the tax cops to cost my employer 60k RMB plus back taxes and illegal employees quitting in exchange for them trying to screw me on air fare and other end of contract payments. |
| Quote: |
That's ok - I've decided not to use them as threats. My Chinese freind, who is an attorney, and I will deliver about 70 pages of class schedules and names to the tax authority in a few days. I don't want to make threats. I want justice.
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If this prompts anything, the tax office will only assign a new taxable amount to his payouts and possible pay some in back taxes, if and that is if, he is in violation of the tax code or schedule. How is it justice to try and sic the tax authorities on him, I though your "beef" was money owed. Justice would be getting what is due, sounds like vengeance to me...not that I am against getting even, on the contrary, but frankly, using the tax office which in my mind is an extension of the police would be shameful and lowlife...kind of a "Rat"..... so why not pursue him in court with your Lawyer and respectfully and tactfully try and get what you think you deserve. |
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