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Beijing to deport unruly expats-China Daily
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JoeKing



Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Beijing to deport unruly expats-China Daily Reply with quote

This popped up this morning on the little QQ window that opens when I start my computer, and I re-post it not to sensationalize the deportation, but because I thought the fines and penalties for illegal teaching may be interesting to some, including the one given to the school. Would the fine given to the school be considered tough, or just a slap on the wrist?

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2013-12/11/content_17168604.htm

"A foreigner in Beijing has been given a 12-day detention and a fine of 6,500 yuan ($1,070) for traffic violations and illegal employment and will be deported along with his father after serving the term, said police on Wednesday.
.....................................................................................................

"Police also found that the man and his father were working illegally. So he was detained for another 5 days and fined 5,000 yuan; his father was detained for 14 days and fined 10,000 yuan. The company that illegally hired the pair fined up to 20,000 yuan.

Both the man and his father are to be deported on their release, the police said.

The police said expatriates in China should comply with the country's laws and regulations. Police protect their rights, but they will also keep lawful management of them and crack down on illegal behavior to maintain social order. "
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JoeKing



Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just noticed that there is a video of the scooter incident on the thread started by NoBillyNo.
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this article, which I've used a quote from on the other off topic thread, interesting for one reason. In Guangzhou, there are scores of illegal foreign workers who apparently even pay their taxes. Those foreigners clearly support the local economy and so make the authorities accomplices in whatever wrongdoing there is. Some, to my knowledge, even get their bank loans for cars (or scooters) and appartments, and their purchases may well result in tax collection by the officials too. Anyhow, losing the little in form of monthly payments isn't probably as serious as unwillingly dropping the rights to ownerships of vehicles or homes that to the powers have been obtained "illegally".
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JoeKing



Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The police said expatriates in China should comply with the country's laws and regulations. Police protect their rights, but they will also keep lawful management of them and crack down on illegal behavior to maintain social order. "
I thought there might be some wisecracks on one of the two threads about police "protecting our rights", but now that I think about it, I don't really remember hearing or reading about any gross miscarriages of justice. Then again, I have only been here since August -I could be way off base. Any opinions on whether westerners get a fair shake from the police, at least for the most part?
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoeKing wrote:
Quote:
The police said expatriates in China should comply with the country's laws and regulations. Police protect their rights, but they will also keep lawful management of them and crack down on illegal behavior to maintain social order. "
I thought there might be some wisecracks on one of the two threads about police "protecting our rights", but now that I think about it, I don't really remember hearing or reading about any gross miscarriages of justice. Then again, I have only been here since August -I could be way off base. Any opinions on whether westerners get a fair shake from the police, at least for the most part?


I think FTs have got to decide if a bigger police profile around schools is a benefit.
Do we want them doing spot checks on schools which do not have the legal right to hire foreigners and/or have L visa tourist teachers on staff.
It's a grrrrrr moment for me (and a few others), whenever there is a plaintive yelp from an L visa type who is being screwed. But they're FTs as well.
The screwing these people get isn't a gross miscarriage but the exploitation is inexcusable. It takes two to tango - an illegal employer and an illegal teacher.
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Markness



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Chengdu

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it's bullshit. I don't know why the hell they don't modernize their visa system, especially when it comes to dealing with people who provide their people with a skill. Why dance around the fire with this stuff? We're here to work/teach, give us the damn visa. It's exceptionally annoying as when the "guanxi" disapears from these illegal employers, you're left with a person who was just trying to make a living having to pay fines even though he was doing the country good. Absolutely stupid. (Not to say that it was an absolute guarantee that this person was a stand-up person that wasn't worthy of the boot), who's to say?
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roadwalker



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

China's system is fairly straightforward for getting a work visa. The fact that there are workarounds seems to confuse people and lead the gullible into foolish ends. The quicker that they tighten up the execution of the visa procedures, the quicker it will become better known not to listen to someone promising a job on a tourist visa. That promise in itself should be a violation.

I saw the tape and can't believe that the guy was acting so victimy and even showing his dirty word fluency. I would like to see open borders and don't really like deportation for solving social issues, but no sympathy for this guy being deported. Jail time seems harsh though, even for a few days.
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roadwalker wrote:
Jail time seems harsh though, even for a few days.


i'm not so sure it's too harsh. if those are the penalties for driving
unregistered, uninsured, without a license, then it's reasonable.

sure, the authorities can ignore some things as long as they're kept
discrete. but the yelling and cursing the old lady went a bit too far.
there's no way the police could ignore that.

it's a face thing. they really have no choice other than to uphold
the law.
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
JoeKing wrote:
Quote:
The police said expatriates in China should comply with the country's laws and regulations. Police protect their rights, but they will also keep lawful management of them and crack down on illegal behavior to maintain social order. "
I thought there might be some wisecracks on one of the two threads about police "protecting our rights", but now that I think about it, I don't really remember hearing or reading about any gross miscarriages of justice. Then again, I have only been here since August -I could be way off base. Any opinions on whether westerners get a fair shake from the police, at least for the most part?


I think FTs have got to decide if a bigger police profile around schools is a benefit.
Do we want them doing spot checks on schools which do not have the legal right to hire foreigners and/or have L visa tourist teachers on staff.
It's a grrrrrr moment for me (and a few others), whenever there is a plaintive yelp from an L visa type who is being screwed. But they're FTs as well.
The screwing these people get isn't a gross miscarriage but the exploitation is inexcusable. It takes two to tango - an illegal employer and an illegal teacher.
This doesn't seem to be a "tango" but dragon, lion and helluva more jungle boogie.
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Simon in Suzhou



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 404
Location: GZ

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think if one was in the country working ILLEGALLY, one would do their best to keep a low profile. Certainly, it doesn't help one's cause to drive an ILLEGAL vehicle, hit a pedestrian, then get filmed by about 100 bystanders cursing her out in Chinese.

Forgive me if I don't jump on the bus defending him. Part of the problem with the illegal crowd is their sense of entitlement. There's too many foreigners living in China like they own the place, being drunken idiots in public, taking advantage of nice Chinese girls and dumping them so they can move on to their next target, cursing out any Chinese person who doesn't cater to them quickly enough (or just those who misunderstand them!). How about a little humility while treading around in someone else's backyard. Heaven knows what the opinion is of immigrants back in our home countries, let alone ILLEGAL immigrants.
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Kipling



Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: ...Ah Mrs K peel me a grape!!!....and have one yourself!!!!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Do unto others as you ........................... Reply with quote

Good Post. Well said.


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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JoeKing



Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon in Suzhou wrote:
I would think if one was in the country working ILLEGALLY, one would do their best to keep a low profile. Certainly, it doesn't help one's cause to drive an ILLEGAL vehicle, hit a pedestrian, then get filmed by about 100 bystanders cursing her out in Chinese.
This part I agree with 100%, Hands down!

Simon in Suzhou wrote:
Forgive me if I don't jump on the bus defending him. Part of the problem with the illegal crowd is their sense of entitlement. There's too many foreigners living in China like they own the place, being drunken idiots in public, taking advantage of nice Chinese girls and dumping them so they can move on to their next target, cursing out any Chinese person who doesn't cater to them quickly enough (or just those who misunderstand them!). How about a little humility while treading around in someone else's backyard. Heaven knows what the opinion is of immigrants back in our home countries, let alone ILLEGAL immigrants.
This part I am not so sure about. Whether you want to defend him or not, what makes you think the "illegal crowd" acts in the way you describe any more than someone here on a proper visa? I could be wrong, but I would bet "keeping a low profile" is what most people here on less than the proper visa are doing. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Whether you want to defend him or not, what makes you think the "illegal crowd" acts in the way you describe any more than someone here on a proper visa?


San le tun Saturday night, Mobile and hostile drunks. But now there will be for the next few months any way...60 officer assigned to check passports and foreigners in the San le tun area 24 hours per day..or at least that is what the hype sez....I think they did the same last year... one thing law enforcement is... predictable.
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JoeKing



Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoBillyNO wrote:
Quote:
Whether you want to defend him or not, what makes you think the "illegal crowd" acts in the way you describe any more than someone here on a proper visa?


San le tun Saturday night, Mobile and hostile drunks. But now there will be for the next few months any way...60 officer assigned to check passports and foreigners in the San le tun area 24 hours per day..or at least that is what the hype sez....I think they did the same last year... one thing law enforcement is... predictable.
While that is interesting, Billy, I fail to see the connection with the quote you cited.......please explain.
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the folks on San le tun are legal, and act the same way as the "illegal crowd"...drunks be drunks....but perhaps you missed the warning to those who are going to this location as to newly appointed patrolmen (24 hrs) will be checking visas and for drug use. Kind of like the picture warning on a "cigereet" pack, they not be your lungs but if your going to that outside corner to take a break and have a puff, that which is pictured may become your reality.
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