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Happy Everyday
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 268
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 Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| thechangling wrote: |
| I don't take any mickey mousing around from asian employers ... |
I understand not wanting anyone to pull a fast one. I'm just one person, but in my own experience, I've worked with and for bosses who are American or Chinese. And they were awesome. No BS. Highly talented, highly talented, and very kind. They were giving. I'm not saying it was always a bed of roses to go to work, but... I've met some a-hole American bosses. I do not regard this as a racial thing at all. I believe it comes down to level of education and personal integrity. Some of my best friends and colleagues are "asian employers." |
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thechangling
Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:48 am Post subject: |
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This is a load of grovelling weasel shite:
Hardline and rigid attitudes like "no negotiation on this one" (is that what they teach in labor studies now?) often lead to a short and bitter experience in China. Those who are happy and successful here are those who are willing and able to find compromise, even if that compromise falls slightly outside the terms of your contract (which some on here are fond of saying ain't worth the paper it's printed on anyway).
Labour Studies issues are universal the world over, and attributing it to the 'this is China/asia' analogy is a cop out. Bottom line contract issues such as hours worked are not to be messed around with by employers who think they can do as they please with their own contract interpretations. Get real. Compromising over little stuff can be fine as it often goes both ways but not the big stuff. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| thechangling wrote: |
Labour Studies issues are universal the world over, and attributing it to the 'this is China/asia' analogy is a cop out. Bottom line contract issues such as hours worked are not to be messed around with by employers who think they can do as they please with their own contract interpretations. Get real. |
I'm curious..... what you do when holiday make up days push you over your weekly maximum hours? |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| As well as teaching I've worked corporate in Asia and find that what we call a contract the Asians see as a basis for an ongoing relationship. Japan is especially like this and Singapore less so. Western heritage I suppose. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| thechangling wrote: |
This is a load of grovelling weasel shite:
Hardline and rigid attitudes like "no negotiation on this one" (is that what they teach in labor studies now?) often lead to a short and bitter experience in China. Those who are happy and successful here are those who are willing and able to find compromise, even if that compromise falls slightly outside the terms of your contract (which some on here are fond of saying ain't worth the paper it's printed on anyway).
Labour Studies issues are universal the world over, and attributing it to the 'this is China/asia' analogy is a cop out. Bottom line contract issues such as hours worked are not to be messed around with by employers who think they can do as they please with their own contract interpretations. Get real. Compromising over little stuff can be fine as it often goes both ways but not the big stuff. |
No need to get hostile. Labor practices are not "universal the world over," and anyone who's worked in Asia quickly realizes many things are done differently here. You either adapt to local conditions or you don't. As for what's acceptable different people are willing to compromise on different things here and what works for one person won't work for another. Anyway you may think I'm full of shit but at least I've been long term and quite happily employed at a decent workplace while you've been busy quitting and getting fired. |
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thechangling
Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:43 am Post subject: |
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What do you expect with your sanctimonious attitude and nasty put downs. If 'things are done differently in asia' means taking their shite and having no power in an employment relationship then you can expect to be incrementally mistreated and abused over time by what you would describe as a good employer in either the public or private sector.
Excepting that you'll be used and putting up with it on the basis that things will 'come my way' later on just opens the windows for further exploitation.
The Chinese as you should well know by now only care about money, particularly when foreigners are involved and look to extend those money making possibilities in every way they can. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Labor practices are not "universal the world over," |
May that as it be... Labor laws and regulations are not universal....perhaps international labor law would have been a more approach course of study for this particular thread |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| thechangling wrote: |
What do you expect with your sanctimonious attitude and nasty put downs. If 'things are done differently in asia' means taking their shite and having no power in an employment relationship then you can expect to be incrementally mistreated and abused over time by what you would describe as a good employer in either the public or private sector.
Excepting that you'll be used and putting up with it on the basis that things will 'come my way' later on just opens the windows for further exploitation.
The Chinese as you should well know by now only care about money, particularly when foreigners are involved and look to extend those money making possibilities in every way they can. |
Gotta disagree with you. Sure, there are bad employment situations and bad employers and bad coworkers (western and Chinese). I've seen them and worked with and against them myself. I've also been treated well by employers. I was farmed out to other schools on a regular basis, and the FAO expressed concern that I might get worn out. I am sure that she was getting a cut of my pay, but reducing my farm hours also meant a reduction in her pay. The woman was a sweetheart, and the entire FAO was wonderful to me.
SOME Chinese are obsessed with getting ahead while others are merely ambitious and don't view every foreigner as a self-enrichment opportunity.
You must have spent too much time in electronics bazaars. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| thechangling wrote: |
What do you expect with your sanctimonious attitude and nasty put downs. If 'things are done differently in asia' means taking their shite and having no power in an employment relationship then you can expect to be incrementally mistreated and abused over time by what you would describe as a good employer in either the public or private sector.
Excepting that you'll be used and putting up with it on the basis that things will 'come my way' later on just opens the windows for further exploitation.
The Chinese as you should well know by now only care about money, particularly when foreigners are involved and look to extend those money making possibilities in every way they can. |
You make it really hard to agree with you, even though I do to an extent. Your attitude is completely childish. JoR actually agreed with you..up to a point.
Yes, often if you give an inch they'll try to take a mile. No, I personally would not accept giving them free overtime now in the hope of getting less hours later.
It did however work out for JoR. Let it be.
As he said before, not everything is worth fighting about....for him this was not worth a fight. For me it would have been. However, you come across as the dbag who fights over every small thing making issues where there shouldn't be issues.
You started this crap with your mention of you extra special Labor Studies degree. Do you think that makes your opinion more valuable? It doesn't. It did make me wonder if basket weaving was full though.
The most accurate thing in this thread so far was his post...not yours.
| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
As a few others have pointed out, pick your battles wisely. If most other aspects of the job are fine, then arguing over a few extra hours one term and a few less the next isn't worth it. Hardline and rigid attitudes like "no negotiation on this one" (is that what they teach in labor studies now?) often lead to a short and bitter experience in China. Those who are happy and successful here are those who are willing and able to find compromise, even if that compromise falls slightly outside the terms of your contract (which some on here are fond of saying ain't worth the paper it's printed on anyway). |
You should read that several times. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Personal circumstances could dictate a more flexible approach.
FTs nearing 60 may place getting a new visa more highly than a 'you don't agree, I'm walking' approach.
Given that many FTs are in China courtesy of the fact that their own economies can't provide them with a job, crowing about the superiority of Western labour conditions is little hollow.
As usual, JoR sums it up nicely. |
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thechangling
Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| muffintop wrote: |
| thechangling wrote: |
What do you expect with your sanctimonious attitude and nasty put downs. If 'things are done differently in asia' means taking their shite and having no power in an employment relationship then you can expect to be incrementally mistreated and abused over time by what you would describe as a good employer in either the public or private sector.
Excepting that you'll be used and putting up with it on the basis that things will 'come my way' later on just opens the windows for further exploitation.
The Chinese as you should well know by now only care about money, particularly when foreigners are involved and look to extend those money making possibilities in every way they can. |
You make it really hard to agree with you, even though I do to an extent. Your attitude is completely childish. JoR actually agreed with you..up to a point.
Yes, often if you give an inch they'll try to take a mile. No, I personally would not accept giving them free overtime now in the hope of getting less hours later.
It did however work out for JoR. Let it be.
As he said before, not everything is worth fighting about....for him this was not worth a fight. For me it would have been. However, you come across as the dbag who fights over every small thing making issues where there shouldn't be issues.
You started this crap with your mention of you extra special Labor Studies degree. Do you think that makes your opinion more valuable? It doesn't. It did make me wonder if basket weaving was full though.
The most accurate thing in this thread so far was his post...not yours.
| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
As a few others have pointed out, pick your battles wisely. If most other aspects of the job are fine, then arguing over a few extra hours one term and a few less the next isn't worth it. Hardline and rigid attitudes like "no negotiation on this one" (is that what they teach in labor studies now?) often lead to a short and bitter experience in China. Those who are happy and successful here are those who are willing and able to find compromise, even if that compromise falls slightly outside the terms of your contract (which some on here are fond of saying ain't worth the paper it's printed on anyway). |
You should read that several times. |
A few extra hours per week as you put it adds up, so for me that's not a minor issue. For example 16 contracted classes a week normally, going up to 22 as was exampled is a bit over a third extra per week, under your scenario for no extra dosh. That's pretty major to me and I would guess a lot of other teachers. Especially if that's your uni gig hours for one week and you have a second job to supplement your income at the weekend over and above the paltry 5000 RMB already earned as primary income.
I see that issue as doing extra classes for free for already meagre earnings defeats the purpose of being there in the first place.
I don't know what you guys categorise as major issues but for me my ability to maximise my income and down time to recover and recharge is paramount. As is getting all my other entitlements in full and my apartment being warm/cool and habitable.
I just tried to explain the argument as I see it. Apologies to JV and NS and any others for my previous language and outbursts. cheers. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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I just tried to explain the argument as I see it. Apologies to JV and NS and any others for my previous language and outbursts. cheers.
All good here.
Best |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
I just tried to explain the argument as I see it. Apologies to JV and NS and any others for my previous language and outbursts. cheers.
All good here.
Best |
Seconded. Hope everyone has a good new year as well. |
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Sinaman
Joined: 23 May 2009
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| Hardline and rigid attitudes like "no negotiation on this one" (is that what they teach in labor studies now?) often lead to a short and bitter experience in China. Those who are happy and successful here are those who are willing and able to find compromise, even if that compromise falls slightly outside the terms of your contract (which some on here are fond of saying ain't worth the paper it's printed on anyway). |
| Quote: |
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
George Bernard Shaw |
A contract is a contract is a contract, whether it is in America or Europe or China. The locals have no problem keeping you to it so I dont know why anyone would be willing to compromise on an issue that is important to them. You really dont think they know they are taking the p*ss out of you when they ask you to go above and beyond what is written? Stop being such a soft mark and stand up for yourself!
As the quote above says, if no one says anything and just "adapts" then nothing will change. |
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NoBillyNO
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| A contract is a contract is a contract, whether it is in America or Europe or China. The locals have no problem keeping you to it so I dont know why anyone would be willing to compromise on an issue that is important to them |
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A contract is only a paper that outlines an agreement and the interpretation of that agreement is up to the individual..... your issue may not be important to the other contract signer ..... a savy FT knows when to give or push .....the world is built on compromise after agreements and it is no different here... the only work where your type of non compliant attitude will work in your favor is that of a ..come to think of it ..NONE! |
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