Job Discussion Forums

[johntpartee]

[Bud Powell]

Re: LOI. The Recruiter doesn't request the LOI. He can, however try to light a fire under the person in charge of hiring to get moving, especially if he has been a regular source of good teachers.

Re: Agents and skimming

I am unsure of the difference between a recruiter and an agent. If one works with someone who is recognized as a recruiter, the recruiter handles all paperwork that flows between the applicant and the school. The recruiter can (and sometimes will) relay applicant's requests for contract clarifications and amendments to the school, even requests for an increase in salary stated in the contract.

Right now the recruiter who secured my upcoming position is negotiating an addendum to my contract that includes verification of tax reporting so that I can convert rmb to USD without the BS I've gone through in the past. (My pay is and always has been above the tax threshold).

Regarding "agents": This is a new one on me. Unless things have changed in recent years, skimming a teacher's salary to pay an agent would be one more unwanted accounting step for the employer. In public institutions, EVERYONE is paid monthly, including administration. The funds are released to the school through the Ministry of Education on a monthly basis (I was told this by a friend who is a legitimate, registered agent ; it was verified by a City FAO).

I highly doubt that any entity would want to have more people on the payroll than necessary. The recruiter's fee is a "one and done" process. Public universities commonly pay FTs to do recruiting if they are having problems scaring someone up. The fee amounts to the offered teacher's one-month's salary. This (the recruiter's fee paid to the FT, that is) comes out of the university's discretionary account, not a payroll account.

I can't imagine anyone (i.e., an "agent") wanting to wait for a monthly check from a school, and i can't imagine a school wanting to cut another monthly check, or even agreeing to cut another check for a teacher who may not even be at the school tomorrow OR handing over a chunk of money that constitutes a portion of a teacher's yearly pay. Public institutions don't keep much cash in the drawer for that sort of thing.

I have little experience with private institutions, so i can't be sure that there isn't some sort of monthly skimming involved and an extra monthly check being cut for an agent. I am certain, however, that it hasn't occurred in any of the public universities that I have taught for, nor has it occurred in any of the public universities that my friends have taught for.

The skimming concept doesn't make very good business sense. No matter how it's done, it's a longshot for the school.

[drjtrekker]

Imagine it BUD POWELL...and as Fox Mulder would say..."BELIEVE"

Agents/Agencies can also be licensed to hire laowai, and in the case of Sunny's (I believe sunny's also operates as a school), they enter into a contract with the UNI and they act as their recruiter on a continual basis.

So if a teacher leaves, Sunny's is still obligated to provide another teacher.
This was the case with a Uni that I worked for in Sichuan.
I do agree with most of the posts that it's not likely that an agent/agency could do this mainly because almost all recruiters are licensed with the standard Chinese biz license which allows them to do business but does not allow them to hire laowai.
The new trend though is for these companies to get teachers over on a "study" visa and they work illegally, most likely unbeknownst to them. But as you all know the govt has been doing some raids recently up in the N.E. to combat this.
That being said, the above are the facts, not speculation.

Re: this blacklist and termination...
I wrote a tad on another thread regarding this and our HR makes it clear that if one is terminated they have 7-10 days to go to the PSB and on a plane outta here.
If they are "absent" the RP is cancelled. I still wonder if its bullocks or not, but my HR sure seemed adamant that this is the case now, and I've worked with the same peeps many years now. With all the recent crackdowns starting in BJ regarding illegal workers and all, I would gamble that chiner is getting their shit together now.

anyhoooo, bored of the same topic.
GL Runners!!

[Bud Powell]

"...Agents/Agencies can also be licensed to hire laowai, and in the case of Sunny's (I believe sunny's also operates as a school), they enter into a contract with the UNI and they act as their recruiter on a continual basis..."

This is news to me. I know that universities that have had good referrals from the same recruiter will often depend solely upon that recruiter to get referrals. They aren't hired as contractors, though.

I do know that some large schools that are not licensed to hire FTs will depend upon a local FAO at a nearby public university to supply FTs. That's how FTs find themselves being farmed out. I never questioned the practice until I told an FAO who was young and fairly new to the game about it. (I was working toward asking for permission to work outside of my contract). She told me that it was illegal for her to farm me out to an entity that was not itself licensed to hire FTs.

I don't see how or why the Ministry of Education (or whichever gov't branch is concerned) would license a non-educational entity to directly hire foreigners. If the agent hires the FT, then the agent is also responsible for requesting the LOI from the FEB (or whoever handles it now) and (presumably) is responsible for payment and execution of the contract. That puts the university of in the position of a subcontractor. In addition, the agent/employer would also be responsible for enforcing terms contained of the contract. That would be a tall order for the agent who works out of Beijing to supervise FTs who live a thousand miles away in Earwaxi, PRC, or even a few hundred miles away within the same province.

I think that the "agent" as described is just another urban myth, one that has been promulgated by people who have an axe to grind with recruiters and others who are responsible for hiring FTs.

I'm expecting a call this week from a recruiter I've known for a few years. I'll ask her what she knows about this.

[Non Sequitur]

'I do know that some large schools that are not licensed to hire FTs will depend upon a local FAO at a nearby public university to supply FTs'.
There was a similar case when I worked at a vocational in Qingdao. The other party was a language school/recruiter.
Some of the recruits worked at the vocational and some at the language school and I expect that the payoff for the vocational was a cut rate recruitment fee.
The thing fell apart when the vocational needed an extra teacher to cope with higher than expected enrollments into their special entry classes.
Dopey recruiter sent their worst teacher (he really was something else) up to the vocational.
You'd think that to maintain the relationship, they'd provide someone decent!
I was DTA and the FAO asked me to send them all of the emails I'd exchanged with the recruiter so they could hire their own teachers direct using my emails as a guide.
The capacity for short term thinking in China still amazes me!

[drjtrekker]

BUD=Dave

Good alias DAVE!

BUD, u keep missing my point. THEY ARE A SCHOOL.
BUT THEY ALSO RECRUIT.

anyways.....