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Gummy Bear
Joined: 11 Jun 2013 Posts: 36
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:34 am Post subject: How to check out a China job recruiter or agent in one day |
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This subject came up in a different thread and I thought it should be shared with everyone planning to work in China or already teaching here and looking to switch jobs. Whether you decide to use and agent or not is your own call.
Last May I attended a free 2 hour workshop at the Friendship Hotel hosted by the China Foreign Teachers Union and the topic was "Avoiding Scams And Working Safely In China." There were two guest speakers; a woman from SAFEA who was the director of one of the departments there, and a young guy from the Ministry of Education. His name was Bo. There was also a third speaker from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs scheduled for after the lunch break but I could not stay and it really doesn't matter now anyway.
Here is what I learn in the morning session about the five different ways to check out if any agent is legitimate (registered and licensed) and if they have a good reputation (even if they are not licensed - as most appear to be) BTW... This is only for Beijing. There are similar procedures and website for Shanghai and Guangzhou and they are listed on the CFTU's web site:
1) Visit Bldg. 5 of the Friendship Hotel complex (bring your passport or the guards will not let you go in). Go down the long corridor on the first floor until you pass the bathroom. The very next door opens into the international office of SAFEA and a woman named "Song" speaks English and will look up your recruiter in their system. She can tell you in five minutes if they are registered as a recruiter.
2) Go to the Tuanjiehu or Liangmaqiao subway station (line 10) and go just West of the Canadian International School you will find the government licensing building and on the first floor they have a reception desk for Chinese and one for foreigners. If you give them the CHINESE name or the license number of the recruiter, they will look them up and tell you in a few minutes if they are legitimate and how many complaints have been filed against them.
3) Visit this website with a Chinese friend and enter the license number of the recruiter http://www.saic.gov.cn/ and see what comes back and see if the addresses, names, and telephone numbers match.
4) Visit this link and see if you find the recruiter blacklisted. For them to be on this list, three or more people would have had to file a complaint within the last year that did not get resolved (no I don't know what "resolved" means - I forgot - sorry). http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org/2012/12/china-foreign-teachers-union-posts-esl.html
5) If you are in a hurry or to lazy to do all of the above, just send the agent the below letter and ask them to fill it out completely then it becomes much quicker easier to know who you are dealing with.
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/EI4ToJJ-3xYl.jpg
Last edited by Gummy Bear on Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 803
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:47 am Post subject: |
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1 and 2 are useful to those in Beijing only. 4 and 5 are a joke I hope. That leaves us with number 3....which you say will let folks know if a recruiter is licensed or not. If that can be done on that website...great. It's better than nothing. |
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Gummy Bear
Joined: 11 Jun 2013 Posts: 36
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:02 am Post subject: |
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muffintop wrote: |
1 and 2 are useful to those in Beijing only. 4 and 5 are a joke I hope. That leaves us with number 3....which you say will let folks know if a recruiter is licensed or not. If that can be done on that website...great. It's better than nothing. |
They handed out similar information for Shanghai and Guangzhou at the workshop but since I was only interested in Beijing, I took the Beijing contact info. Maybe someone else can post the addresses and contacts for those other two locations. I think there may have also been a Chongqing package as well. They basically asked you what city are you looking to work in and then gave you the package for that city. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 1736
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Oh. It's in Beijing now. I thought they were HQ'd in Shanghai. At least, that's what a CFTU rep told me a couple of months ago. |
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NoBillyNO

Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Posts: 1762
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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just looked in on the ole board... there is a SAFEA office at the Friendship Hotel in Beijing....as to their ability to help I have no idea... |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 1736
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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NoBillyNO wrote: |
just looked in on the ole board... there is a SAFEA office at the Friendship Hotel in Beijing....as to their ability to help I have no idea... |
No help whatsoever unless they've hired sober English speaking people. Even then... |
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Gummy Bear
Joined: 11 Jun 2013 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Hey guys, I did some digging on the internet and the other government web sites where you can check out records of registered agents/recruiters in cities other than Beijing are here at this link below.
http://www.tefl.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6097#p14422
Also, SAFEA is not totally useless and when I went there I got surprisingly good service. If you go in there making arrogant demands of course they won't help you. If that woman Song still works there, ask for her and be polite. She helped me with a single phone call to get a copy of my contract that was being withed from me and forced the school to give me the name and phone number of the school's owner. She may be the exception to the rule, but try a little honey instead of vinegar and you may get better mileage. |
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muffintop
Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 803
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Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:41 am Post subject: |
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shuman129 wrote: |
People who use recruiters are those that are not intelligent enough to use the web or telephone to locate a job and find the answers to visa questions, etc. They (employees) are those that just want everyone else to do everything for them and take no self-responsibility for the end-result. |
Uhhhhh....
Wut? |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 1736
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Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Gummy Bear wrote: |
Also, SAFEA is not totally useless and when I went there I got surprisingly good service. If you go in there making arrogant demands of course they won't help you. If that woman Song still works there, ask for her and be polite. She helped me with a single phone call to get a copy of my contract that was being withed from me and forced the school to give me the name and phone number of the school's owner. She may be the exception to the rule, but try a little honey instead of vinegar and you may get better mileage. |
SAFEA has a long way to go to convince me that it actually wants to to hely foreign experts. On the two occasions that I've sought its help, I got no cooperation. Either no one answered the many phone numbers I called, or i was transferred to someone who spoke little-to-no-English, or whoever picked up the phone promptly hung up on me.
"...If you go in there making arrogant demands of course they won't help you. ..."
Well, la dee da. Thanks for the assumption that I (or anyone else) makearrogant demands. You know what? I don't like that assumption. If my SAFEA contract is questionable, or an employer violates it, i don't like it when some baijiu swilling idiot hangs up on me when I ask reasonable questions.
My last contact with SAFEA was with a representative from another time zone. At 12:00 midnight USA time, I got a call from a screaming harpy who finally responded to several letters of complaint to the ministry of education, several posts on another forum, and a very stern letter to the labor board and my former employer. Did i get any answers? No. I got screamed at for making her life uncomfortable. Then the witch hung up on me. So much for the SAFEA.
The SAFEA is as useful as a sleeping, toothless f@rting dog.
Please, take your CFTU message somewhere else, perhaps someplace that will pay you your fifty cents.
Thank you.
Edit: grammar
Last edited by Bud Powell on Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 1736
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Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:50 am Post subject: |
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shuman129 wrote: |
People who use recruiters are those that are not intelligent enough to use the web or telephone to locate a job and find the answers to visa questions, etc. They (employees) are those that just want everyone else to do everything for them and take no self-responsibility for the end-result. |
And they're for people who'd rather not arrive on an L visa, blow a lot of money on a plane ticket, accommodations, food, and transportation in search of a job only to find out that they don't know what they're doing.
Recruiters don't do much more than tell the applicant about the job and send your paperwork to the school for review. The applicant does the rest.
It's not so easy to get someone to answer the phone at a school because a LOT of the time, you're actually dealing with a recruiter. TADA!
Even if you actually speak to the owner or anyone else employed by the school, how do you know you aren't being lied to?
If one is in-country, one can dispense with a recruiter and just walk across the street to another mill. I've done it myself.
If you're out-of-country, recruiters will save you the hassle of finding a job for which you are qualified. They screen out the unqualified (or are supposed to. It's difficult for some to distinguish between bona fide documents and the rest).
I wonder what people have to gain by knocking recruiters. |
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Banner41
Joined: 04 Jan 2011 Posts: 656 Location: Shanghai
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Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: Re: How to check out a China job recruiter or agent in one d |
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Gummy Bear wrote: |
Last May I attended a free 2 hour workshop at the Friendship Hotel hosted by the China Foreign Teachers Union.......
[b] |
Thats as far as I get on posts about the CTFU. It's junk, it's a scam.....move on. |
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Sir Winston
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Posts: 24
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:05 am Post subject: Re: How to check out a China job recruiter or agent in one d |
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Gummy Bear wrote: |
This subject came up in a different thread and I thought it should be shared with everyone planning to work in China or already teaching here and looking to switch jobs. Whether you decide to use and agent or not is your own call.
Last May I attended a free 2 hour workshop at the Friendship Hotel hosted by the China Foreign Teachers Union and the topic was "Avoiding Scams And Working Safely In China." There were two guest speakers; a woman from SAFEA who was the director of one of the departments there, and a young guy from the Ministry of Education. His name was Bo. There was also a third speaker from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs scheduled for after the lunch break but I could not stay and it really doesn't matter now anyway.
Here is what I learn in the morning session about the five different ways to check out if any agent is legitimate (registered and licensed) and if they have a good reputation (even if they are not licensed - as most appear to be) BTW... This is only for Beijing. There are similar procedures and website for Shanghai and Guangzhou and they are listed on the CFTU's web site:
1) Visit Bldg. 5 of the Friendship Hotel complex (bring your passport or the guards will not let you go in). Go down the long corridor on the first floor until you pass the bathroom. The very next door opens into the international office of SAFEA and a woman named "Song" speaks English and will look up your recruiter in their system. She can tell you in five minutes if they are registered as a recruiter.
2) Go to the Tuanjiehu or Liangmaqiao subway station (line 10) and go just West of the Canadian International School you will find the government licensing building and on the first floor they have a reception desk for Chinese and one for foreigners. If you give them the CHINESE name or the license number of the recruiter, they will look them up and tell you in a few minutes if they are legitimate and how many complaints have been filed against them.
3) Visit this website with a Chinese friend and enter the license number of the recruiter http://www.saic.gov.cn/ and see what comes back and see if the addresses, names, and telephone numbers match.
4) Visit this link and see if you find the recruiter blacklisted. For them to be on this list, three or more people would have had to file a complaint within the last year that did not get resolved (no I don't know what "resolved" means - I forgot - sorry). http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org/2012/12/china-foreign-teachers-union-posts-esl.html
5) If you are in a hurry or to lazy to do all of the above, just send the agent the below letter and ask them to fill it out completely then it becomes much quicker easier to know who you are dealing with.
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/EI4ToJJ-3xYl.jpg |
I also attended that CFTU event before moving out to Shanghai last year and although you only gave instructions for checking out recruiters and agents in Beijing, this link below has the instructions for other cities as well.
http://www.tefl.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6097#p14422
Also after I read the comments of Mr. Powell above about SAFEA, I'd like to suggest that whenever you need anything from a government agency, go there personally and be friendly. Telephone calls are as useful as a used condom. Emails will only get an auto reply.
Also be sure to ask everyone you speak to for their name and write it down in front of them. The only thing Chinese people care about is there jobs and writing down their names makes them nervous and feel obligated to do their jobs. If you don't get what you want, ask for a supervisor and tell them that Mr. Ma or Mr. Liu from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs sent you to there office. Also ask the supervisor for a name card. If you still don't get what you need, ask to see the Director. If they say he/she is not there. Say "No problem, please call him and tell him/her that ______________ is here from Australia waiting to see them. If they still try to blow you off, use your mobile phone and take the photo of everyone you spoke with. If they ask you why you are taking photos, simply say "For Wei Bo" with a friendly smile. You will get service if you are not too lazy to get off your arse and make a visit. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 1736
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:33 am Post subject: |
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"...Also after I read the comments of Mr. Powell above about SAFEA, I'd like to suggest that whenever you need anything from a government agency, go there personally and be friendly. Telephone calls are as useful as a used condom. Emails will only get an auto reply..."
How long have you been in China?
"...You will get service if you are not too lazy to get off your arse and make a visit..."
Right. Take two days off work , show up at a place that may not even exist with no appointment and see what happens. Uh huh. Yes sir. Now you're an apologist for the SAFEA.
I didn't step off the plane yesterday, nor the year before, nor the year before that, nor the year before that...
Where are these people coming from? |
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Gummy Bear
Joined: 11 Jun 2013 Posts: 36
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:27 am Post subject: |
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So Bud, what was your actual SAFEA experience. Did you actually go in and speak with someone and if so at what office? Were you able to communicate with someone in English or do you speak Chinese?
I can't speak for other people but I got what I needed by asking for a specific director who spoke English quite well at one SAFEA office. (that lady "Song') Until I have a bad experience, i cannot really complain about them. I can only guess you went to a different office or maybe tried to do things over the phone?
What was circumstances Bud and how did it play out? |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 1736
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Gummy Bear wrote: |
So Bud, what was your actual SAFEA experience. Did you actually go in and speak with someone and if so at what office? Were you able to communicate with someone in English or do you speak Chinese?
I can't speak for other people but I got what I needed by asking for a specific director who spoke English quite well at one SAFEA office. (that lady "Song') Until I have a bad experience, i cannot really complain about them. I can only guess you went to a different office or maybe tried to do things over the phone?
What was circumstances Bud and how did it play out? |
I told you how it played out.
My experience was just like everyone else's experience. Use the search function and find out. I found lots of references to SAFEA bummers.
Signing off on this topic too.
Have fun teaching Aviation English |
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