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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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 Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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If Saudi is like the rest of the Gulf, you will also need signed and notarized permission from the father of the children if he is still living. Divorce papers giving you the children have no authority in the Gulf. Children are considered a possession of the father no matter what Western courts may decide.
VS |
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786
Joined: 27 Jan 2014
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| TQ college or Pearson seem be behaving professional so far, its a direct hire position. Where do you work ? |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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An Umrah visa is for performing the lesser pilgrimage. The holder is NOT permitted to work - even as a nanny.
If you get into KSA and have your two children with you, you can probably arrange childcare when there - but be careful about employing illegals and overstayers.
You really should contact a competent person at the employer's office. That may be more difficult than you think. Ask them about possible arrangements to bring your dependant children with you. As VS says. this will entail written permission fro0m the children's father. |
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786
Joined: 27 Jan 2014
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Do the people of Madina, generally speak some English? I've lived in UAE and Doha and language wasn't an issue when getting things done.
Also, what is the behaviour of female students like? can it be compared to those in UK colleges? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| 786 wrote: |
| Also, what is the behaviour of female students like? can it be compared to those in UK colleges? |
Generally, female students who are in a science/medical university track were top achievers in their high schools. They tend to be serious about their studies, and therefore, easier to teach compared to their peers pursuing a degree in the humanities.
It's unrealistic to compare Saudi female students in a conservative country to female students studying in a secular, Western environment. |
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SENTINEL33
Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 112
Location: Bahrain
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| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| 786 wrote: |
Do the people of Madina, generally speak some English? I've lived in UAE and Doha and language wasn't an issue when getting things done.
Also, what is the behaviour of female students like? can it be compared to those in UK colleges? |
I'm sorry if I sound "rude", but you seem to be ignoring the dire warnings of Veiled Sentiments and Scot47 regarding your specific situation with your children.
It almost sounds like you don't want to hear what they have to say because it doesn't fit into your "plans". Instead, you're concentrating on inane questions like "do the people of Madina generally speak English".
If I may:
1. No, the people of Madina do not generally speak English above the level of "motherese". That is, they do not know how to use the verb /to be/, are mystified by English structure and syntax and cannot pronounce the phonetic sounds /p/ and /v/ because they do not occur in Arabic. Active vocabulary level in English by your average Medinese is probably around 150 words, tops.
You will certainly be able to "get by", and order a bottle of water, but if you are arriving with all sorts of "legal" questions, you're going to have to rely on a professional of some kind who is fluent in both English and Arabic and is more than familiar with the laws and regulations of KSA as they relate to your situation.
All Arabs are convinced that they speak fluent English but of course, the reality is just the opposite. This causes all kinds of misunderstandings, misinterpretations and so on.....and generally the non-Arab (you) will be the loser in whatever transaction was being considered. After all, it's you that didn't understand the responses you were getting. That's your fault, not theirs.
2. As you well know, entrance into Medina and Mecca is strictly forbidden to non-Muslims. I have no idea, but it's highly unlikely that anyone on this board who responds with regularity to questions asked is a Muslim. Thus there is no way anyone here can answer your question about the level of English spoken in Medina except in a general way as I've done above - which actually would apply to all of KSA, not just Medina.
3. As to your final question, let me say this. According to your statements, you've worked in the Gulf before so I would say that the "behaviour of female students" in Medina more closely resembles that of females in Gulf colleges than it does females in British colleges.
4. Finally, you asked a somewhat peculiar question above, to wit: " Does this mean I can't walk around the city alone or with my kids?"
Uh, yes, that's exactly what it means. It all depends, of course, on precisely where you'll reside. If you're way out in the "desert", I'm sure no one will question you as you saunter about in thrall of the desert. If you live downtown, you're going to run into all kinds of trouble and be questioned as to what exactly you think you're doing walking around unaccompanied by an adult male who is related to you.
Bonne chance.
Last edited by SENTINEL33 on Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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786
Joined: 27 Jan 2014
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not offended by anything anyone has said, I really appreciate your time and effort in replying, if I don't comment on points anyone has made, it just means it's something I'm going to look into. I doesn't mean I'm ignoring the point made. I am in dialogue with my kids father about providing a letter. I am concerned that he could also withdraw his consent at any point. The other topics that I drift onto, maybe less relevant, but still they are questions in my mind. I am surprised that I wont be able to walk around alone. I was told that college and compound will be outside the restricted area in Madina and if I am Muslim, which I am, I can move around anywhere in Madina. Apparantly, don't need a man, but better to go with a group of women than entirely on my own. Once again, thank you all for your comments, I am considering them. |
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Muhammed Abbas Khan
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 73
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Dear Sentinel,
You stated: "If you live downtown, you're going to run into all kinds of trouble and be questioned as to what exactly you think you're doing walking around unaccompanied by an adult male who is related to you".
It is not a religious requirement that you be accompanied by a male guardian whilst moving around locally and so assuming '786' is legally resident in Medinah there are no legal restrictions placed on her movement within the city. However, getting around will not be easy as '786' would need to either make use of local taxis or see whether her employer will provide some kind of shuttle service.
It is relatively cheap (last I checked about 3000 SR) to sponsor one's family through a process known as 'istiqdam'. Assuming one has all the paperwork, including a valid iqama which can take anything up to a month to process, then obtaining the visa for one's family takes about a week. When applying for a visa in the case of '786' you are of course able to sponsor your children. In addition, from what I witnessed from my time in KSA you can also sponsor your mother and father but not siblings.
Direct hire generally speaking is a good way to go. There is also the option of placing children who are aged 4 and 8 in to nursery and school whilst working. However, a huge decision like this should only be made after contacting other expat female teachers with children who are teaching at the establishement you wish to join. One might even go so far as to suggest an umrah trip to possibly survey the compound and university whilst also meeting staff.
Regards,
Abbas |
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SENTINEL33
Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 112
Location: Bahrain
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| Muhammed Abbas Khan wrote: |
It is not a religious requirement that you be accompanied by a male guardian whilst moving around locally and so assuming '786' is legally resident in Medinah there are no legal restrictions placed on her movement within the city. However, getting around will not be easy as '786' would need to either make use of local taxis or see whether her employer will provide some kind of shuttle service.
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Thank you for your comments which I'm sure "786" will appreciate.
No, it is not a "religious" requirement for a female to be accompanied by a male guardian......but it is a "cultural" one. Of course, in reality nowadays this has been watered down to mean accompanied by "someone". So you get groups of females "walking around" with no problem.
I still contend, though, that a "single" female walking around by herself, (which is what the OP 786 specified - see her comment above), especially in a conservative area such as Medina, is very likely to be approached by "authorities" and questioned. This would be especially true if she was darting in and out of streets and alleyways, crossing streets and so on. Inside a building like a mall, this would be less likely to occur.
Last edited by SENTINEL33 on Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:56 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Muhammed Abbas Khan wrote: |
It is relatively cheap (last I checked about 3000 SR) to sponsor one's family through a process known as 'istiqdam'. Assuming one has all the paperwork, including a valid iqama which can take anything up to a month to process, then obtaining the visa for one's family takes about a week. When applying for a visa in the case of '786' you are of course able to sponsor your children. In addition, from what I witnessed from my time in KSA you can also sponsor your mother and father but not siblings.
Direct hire generally speaking is a good way to go. There is also the option of placing children who are aged 4 and 8 in to nursery and school whilst working. However, a huge decision like this should only be made after contacting other expat female teachers with children who are teaching at the establishement you wish to join. One might even go so far as to suggest an umrah trip to possibly survey the compound and university whilst also meeting staff. |
You make it sound easy-breezy. However, the OP failed to tell the employer of her plans to bring her children as a single parent. Since TQ is providing female teachers with a single-status visa and accommodation for single, unaccompanied females, the OP may find herself in a bind if the employer says no or if the job offer is rescinded. (Frankly, they may be ticked that she left out this major detail about bringing her dependents.) Plus, there's the bigger issue of obtaining permission from the children's father. And if he's not cool with the idea, then... So forget about getting (and paying for) a nanny, the children's education, family housing... The OP needs to resolve these other issues first. |
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786
Joined: 27 Jan 2014
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I have got verbal permission from the father, however, from experience of all the years I've known him, his words usually means nothing, so I am waiting for it in writing. You are right, I do need to let the college know asap, although they have stated in their employment information that they offer assistance in sponsoring family members. I appreciate Muhammad's advice, it's been the only ray of hope so far from anywhere. I was very excited to be offered this position, kind of a dream job, which I'm increasingly dreading! |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Good luck, 786. I hope everything works out fine for you and your children wherever you end up teaching. |
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786
Joined: 27 Jan 2014
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifting onto another relevant, yet irrelevant topic... what are the chances of employing a driver with car? how much does it cost? I'm assuming other teachers would love to share the cost of our own driver. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I sincerely hope that we hear from you after you have arrived in Medina. |
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