Job Discussion Forums

[mnguy29]

Ok, so I have been hearing various responses about this lately. I want to know if anyone knows this for sure. In the past, you could come to China on a tourist visa for 90 days, then, you could secure a teaching position and go to Hong Kong with invite letter and have it changed to a work visa. Or, could continue the tourist visa. I have heard that each province has different regulations on this and some allow it and some dont. What about Guangxi, Nanning?? Other provinces?
Another of the many confusing things about living and working in China. I would appreciate if anyone knows about this. Thanks!

[muffintop]

There is no simple answer to this question.
Some will be successful and others won't.

Nothing in China is 100%....especially this.

Nobody can give you a list of provinces...it's just not that simple.

[teenoso]

One of the regulars (D-M) said this was possible last year in Yangshuo, near Guilin, north of Nanning , in Guangxi. But , yes , different cities in the same province seem to have their own procedures and rules.

It seems clear, from the limited sample on Dave's board, that the HK Z visa run is becoming scarcer. I would not rely on it , and come prepared to fly home for the visa. Rules, and the application of the rules, can change in an instant here.

Nanning is a cool place to live , IMO . Not too polluted , small enough , and lively, but the main source of teaching work was at the Univ. of Guangxi. Beyond that , one or two teachers at training schools, or the Medical Uni, but not so many opportunities, on the whole. The ex-pat community is predominantly older guys with local wives.

[Spelunker]

Personally, I would not risk it

I have met too many americans, aussies and brits who have been screwed over or stung on even tourist visas in HK in the past few weeks. You could try, but they may simply tell you to go back home.

[Non Sequitur]

[GreatApe]

I'd have to agree with the advice given here, especially that of Spelunker and Non Sequitur.

Having worked for about 14 months in Yangshuo (Guangxi) myself, I can tell you that those H.K. to Guangxi round trips on a sleeper bus are NO FUN! I did it three times over the course of about 7 or 8 months, and it would have been more if I had not been working for roughly 6 of those 14 months on a Z visa which I originally obtained in Guangdong province shortly after I arrived in China. (REMINDER: working on a Z visa from another province is ALSO "illegal"!)

Guangxi is reportedly an "Autonomous Region" and so, it IS possible to work there on an L or F visa and renew in Hong Kong. Whether it's "LEGAL" or not is a subject of much debate here on these forums. Some say it's NOT LEGAL under Chinese law (and they are right); some say you can do it in an Autonomous Region in China (and I am living proof that they are right as well)!

The main point is, you REALLY DON'T want to work this way! It's extremely unpleasant, stressful, tiresome and tedious taking those trips to H.K. and having to renew every few months, let alone constantly stressing about your visa status, and whether or not you'll be able to continue to stay and work in China. Particularly if you want to stay and work for more than one short contract.

A "Good School" (by which I mean one "qualified" to hire foreign teachers) should be able to get you a Z visa and Residence Permit if, in fact, YOU are qualified to receive one from the P.R.C. Not all schools in Guangxi are qualified to hire foreign teachers, or to get the subsequent Z visa and RP for a foreign teacher. My former school in Yangshuo was one of those schools which could not obtain a Z visa. To be honest, the reason I left Yangshuo was due to this fact. I had already known the comfort of living on a Z visa and RP, and I wanted to get back to living and working under those same, more comfortable, conditions.

Because Guangxi is an Autonomous Region, many schools in areas such as Yangshuo and Guilin hire "tourist teachers" (those teachers often referred to as "backpackers") for a time to teach, and they often get away with it! From the school's perspective, they are using teachers who are simply "passing through" for a few months and they get them on the cheap, so why should they go to the expense of getting these "tourist teachers" a year-long Z visa and Residence Permit when they will likely be gone in a month or two (or six)? If you understand the term "Profit Margin", then you understand exactly why the schools do this.

From the teacher's perspective, the school is asking you to work "illegally" and, if you're NOT a "backpacker" type, why should you have to risk breaking the law of the P.R.C.? Why should you have to take a 24 to 30 hour round-trip sleeper bus trip every 3 months to H.K. just to collect a less-than-legal visa, for a less-than-mediocre salary? (Typically Guangxi does not pay very well, particularly in areas such as Nanning, Yangshuo and Guilin).

Personally, I never had a problem in 3 trips to H.K. from Guangxi renewing the L or F visa under which I had been working, but it's definitely NOT the way to go! Especially if you plan to teach longer than 3 months or if you want to stay and work in China for a year or two (or longer).

From a legal standpoint, the problem is the concept of an "Autonomous Region" when it comes to visa issues for foreigners. Add to this the fact that MOST schools (not just in A.R. provinces or areas, but in China in general) do not want to invest in a Z visa for a teacher who is coming to China for the first time, and who is an "Unknown Quantity" as far as being an employee, a worker, and a teacher is concerned. Why commit to a teacher who may turn out to be incompetent or a complete disaster in the classroom? They don't want to spend more money to hire foreign teachers BLINDLY without knowing something about their skill levels, their teaching philosophy, their qualifications, and whether or not they will be able to adapt to living and working in the P.R.C. (let alone actually teach)!

In other words, they're looking to hire FTs in the cheapest way possible and with the least amount of monetary RISK and commitment ... and that means a HUGE inconvenience to those who come to China to work on anything other than a Z visa and RP. The school is paying a small amount of money to see if you can actually do the job; you are paying by working under an inconvenient (and "illegal" L or F) visa.

At the end of the day, please excuse my long-winded response and verbose explanation. Suffice to say that my advice is, just as others here have said, "Don't Do It!"

This advice is made even more solid and pertinent since July, 2013, with the apparent implementation of the so-called "New Entry and Exit Laws" for foreigners.

Good Luck!

--GA

EDIT: for grammar and clarity (and possible Obsessive/Compulsive Disorder)!

[Non Sequitur]

Good stuff.
The Autonomous Region aspect is new to the HK Z visa discussion.
OP might like to advise why an L visa approach is even being contemplated.

[mnguy29]

Thanks GreatApe and all. I will just wait for schools who offer the z visa before arriving in China. Good to hear about Nanning being a nice city with decent air quality. This is another factor in searching for jobs in China. I dont know how anyone would consider going to Beijing from recent reports.
I am looking at a University in Nanning that sounds good.

[D-M]

Further to earlier replies I can confirm that when I was in Yangshuo last year, teachers were able to go to HK on a visa run. The last teachers I personally worked with who did this obtained their new visa around September 2013.

NOTE - This was not a visa run as described by Great Ape ... to renew an F or L visa, but rather a visa run to swap from L / F visa to legit Z visa, beginning the RP process. The bigger employers in Yangshuo all issue legit visas now ... but the majority of these are issued via a HK visa run.

[MahaGala]

[JoeKing]