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JN · Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214

I heard this sentence from a student today:

He called me and said that he has gone to skate.

Somehow it just doesn't seem correct to me. I would probably say- He has gone skating- , but I don't know if I would say: He said he has gone to skate. I would normally say: He called me and said he is going skating (as in, he will or he is right now).

If the original sentence is wrong, how would I explain why it is wrong?

johnslat · Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:35 pm Post subject:

Dear JN,

"He called me and said that he had gone to skate."

When using "reported/indirect speech," the verbs in the reported speech generally move one back: present to past, past and present perfect to past perfect," will to would, etc.

The exceptions are when a fact is being reported - He said (that) the sun rises in the east.

Or if the verb in the direct speech in the the past perfect - there's no place further back to go" "I had already done it" He said (that) he had already done it.

Regards,
John

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

johnslat · Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:13 pm Post subject:

Dear johnrtpartee,

As I tell my students, "The only 100% rule in English is that there are NO 100% rules." Very Happy

Regards,
John

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

JN · Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214

Thanks for the help. I tell my students many times that there are exceptions.

My student was trying to use "has gone" in a sentence to report that her husband had called her and said he had gone skating.

I did have a British speaker tell me (as she hurried to her next class) that the original sentence seemed fine to her.

So I assume there is no way she could use has gone in that sentence, then, correct? Of course, maybe this is an exception? I think the more I think about this sentence, the more confused I become.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:11 am Post subject:

The main issue seems to be with the verb pattern, not with the verb forms.

He called me and said that he has/had gone skating is probably closer to what the learner wanted to say.

Shroob · Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 1339

johnslat · Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject:

The British Council weighs in:

"Perfect tenses

Direct speech: “They’ve always been very kind to me”. Reported speech: She said they’d always been very kind to her.

The present perfect tense (have always been) usually changes to the past perfect tense (had always been).

Direct speech: “They had already eaten when I arrived” Reported speech: He said they’d already eaten when he’d arrived.

The past perfect tense does not change in reported speech.

You can find more information about reported speech in another section."

https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/grammar-reference/reported-speech-1

Common Reported Speech Transformations
He said, "I live in Paris." He said he lived in Paris.
He said, "I am cooking dinner." He said he was cooking dinner.
He said, "I have visited London twice." He said he had visited London twice.
He said, "I went to New York last week." He said he had gone to New York the week before.
He said, "I had already eaten." He said he had already eaten.
He said, "I am going to find a new job." He said he was going to find a new job.
He said, "I will give Jack a call." He said he would give Jack a call.

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject:

Hang on, is this an issue of reported speech? I am not sure about that. Do we really say 'go to skate'? As in 'I go to skate every weekend'? Sounds decidedly odd to my ears. 'I go skating every weekend' seems much more natural. As with many other sporting activities. How many of us 'go to walk' in the park, or go to jog; go to dance every weekend?

The reported speech part seems to me to be a red herring. But then that may be just me. I always see them when I 'go to fish' - as a life-long Communist it couldn't be any other way : )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdxYS_zVByg

johnslat · Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha,

Oh, I agree that the gerund should be used (unless one were communication the reason one goes):

A: Why do you go there?

B: Oh, I go to skate

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm Post subject:

Dear Johnslat

Yes, the infinitive of purpose.

So, do you also agree that the 'to skate' is really the only iffy part of the learner's utterance?

With Communist greetings

Sasha

johnslat · Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject:

Dear Sasha,

That might depend on how long ago "he" called. Very Happy

Regards,
John

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:14 pm Post subject:

Dear Johnslat

Possibly. But that would be to focus on a possible covert error while not dealing with the overt error, surely?

With Communist greetings

JN · Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214