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The Current State of the Ukraine
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently, Obama told Putin that he would support sending international monitors to Ukraine to help protect ethnic Russians. I just wonder why uncle Sam doesn't let Vlad to "support" his own ethnic group in Ukraine. Would it be alright to send Russian international monitors to "support" the American ethnic group, if Texas went into a state of extreme confusion? Oh, sorry, Texas is still well in the US.

Moreover, it seems that NATO announced a meeting for Sunday of the North Atlantic Council, the alliance's political decision-making body, as well as a meeting of the NATO-Ukraine Commission. It is concerning that the NATO that not long ago denied Russia to enter the organization is getting involved. Also, why does it have a "NATO-Ukraine Commision"?

All in all, it is unfortunate the western world has not learned how to live with the east after WWII together and that it worked so hard to undermine whatever the east has live for since Hitler was defeated.
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russia and Ukraine! Shocked That's a tough one... Surprised

I hope everything works out for the best for everyone. Cool
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

British duke Hague today and American duke Kerry tomorrow in Kiev; that's as tough if not tougher. Anything happens to either of them and we all are in it. Why they are attempting to re-construct the scenario prior to WWI is beyond me. It's now so threatening how the west pushes in affairs of so many nations around the world and tries countlessly to impose its own will and values on them. Does everyone have to agree with the same political system? Will the meddling ever stop without a serious international conflict?
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Shroob



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wonderingjoesmith wrote:
British duke Hague today and American duke Kerry tomorrow in Kiev; that's as tough if not tougher. Anything happens to either of them and we all are in it. Why they are attempting to re-construct the scenario prior to WWI is beyond me. It's now so threatening how the west pushes in affairs of so many nations around the world and tries countlessly to impose its own will and values on them. Does everyone have to agree with the same political system? Will the meddling ever stop without a serious international conflict?


Sorry, which country is it again that is sending in tanks, troops, and demanding Ukraine's military surrender?
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes threatening actions result in more threatening reactions. Negotiations have sadly failed and Ukraine with its questionable western backed leadership iis on its way to the EU, Crimea to Russia; it seems to be a deal to take in peace or leave at war. Which one shoud it be? Or, endangering the east, should the Ukrainian radicals take the whole nine yards? Are you willing to pay your dues on Kerry's sales trip? How outraged will you be, if something happens during his visit there?
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, the old "I don't like your internal policies, so I'm going to invade you," excuse, one the good old US has used often.

But you know, I suspect that wonderingjoesmith wasn't quite as understanding and forgiving when the US used it. Very Happy

Regards,
John
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear John,

When Americans invaded Vietnam I wasn't alive yet, but when they and their constrained allies attacked Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya I was; and, from those very events I have learned that laws may not matter as much as the power. Haven't more of us got a knack of it? Perhaps, the Russians have from the American administrations, especially after Yugoslavia and Afghanistan.

To follow up on your notion, many, me inclusive, were not as much baffled by our presidents' actions against Milosevic or Bin Laden; however, the confusion and distrust in our decisions really kicked in after Iraq and Libya. In retrospect, I'd like to think we not only sit on the power of military but also education which we are so proud of too.

So, whether any of us were or were not understanding/forgiving should not matter today as much as our wisdom. Putin and his nation aren't only following in our footsteps; they are dealing with their own former republic. Russia ought to be the key in the Ukrainian diplomatic solution and the local extremists that we often call "terrorists" in our homelands ought not to be supported to such an extent as they have.

I hope your skepticism has been cleared, and above all I hope that our honorable Mr. Kerry won't step on a mine in Kiev today.

Sincerely yours,
Joe
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I note, with disdain, an almost total absence of historical or dialectical materialism in the above arguments. No wonder the confusion...
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ICC should ask, Is this a war, Crimea? Wink

If you read is out loud it sounds liek a joke. Laughing

Cool
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sasha,

Working with people, who have been judged as invaders of Ukraine, must be enlightening.

Sashadroogie wrote:
I note, with disdain, an almost total absence of historical or dialectical materialism in the above arguments. No wonder the confusion...
Let in on the topic rather than just assess one's mind! What are the views of average Russians on the current state in Ukraine and how do you compare them to your own take? Is it more acceptable or despicable there?

I hope the recognition of Marx, Engels, Lenin or Putin people will illuminate the debate and perhaps offer the west something to consider.

Regards,
Joe
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Lack



Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 252

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's been about 70 years since the last world war. There was only a 20 year period between the first and second, so we had a pretty good run, right? Right?!
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Cool Teacher



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lack wrote:
Well, it's been about 70 years since the last world war. There was only a 20 year period between the first and second, so we had a pretty good run, right? Right?!


We might be laughuing on the other side of out faces if nuclear war happesn. Laughing
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wonderingjoesmith,

I don't think Russia was in any need of instruction (i.e. following in the footsteps) from the US or other nations regarding invading other countries:

1. 2008 invasion of Georgia by Russia

2. 1979 invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union

3. 1978 invasion of Cambodia by Vietnam, with Soviet support

4. 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia by the Warsaw Pact led by the Soviet Union

5. 1956 invasion of Hungary by the Soviet Union

6. 1950 invasion of South Korea by North Korea with Soviet support

7. 1945 invasion of Poland, Austria and Eastern Germany by the Soviet Union

"Putin and his nation aren't only following in our footsteps; they are dealing with their own former republic."

Hmm. given that reasoning, I suppose Russia could claim justification for
"intervening" in the internal affairs of the following, as well:

1. Armenia; 2. Azerbaijan; 3. Belarus; 4. Estonia;
5. Georgia; 6. Kazakhstan; 7. Kyrgyzstan; 8. Latvia;
9. Lithuania; 10. Moldova; 11. Russia; 12. Tajikistan;
13. Turkmenistan; 14. Uzbekistan

Regards,
John
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grahamb



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:21 pm    Post subject: Crisis Reply with quote

This calls for a song.

Cri-mea river, cri-mea river…

With apologies to Julie London et al.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear wonderingjoesmith,

I don't think Russia was in any need of instruction (i.e. following in the footsteps) from the US or other nations regarding invading other countries:

1. 2008 invasion of Georgia by Russia

2. 1979 invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union

3. 1978 invasion of Cambodia by Vietnam, with Soviet support

4. 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia by the Warsaw Pact led by the Soviet Union

5. 1956 invasion of Hungary by the Soviet Union

6. 1950 invasion of South Korea by North Korea with Soviet support

7. 1945 invasion of Poland, Austria and Eastern Germany by the Soviet Union

"Putin and his nation aren't only following in our footsteps; they are dealing with their own former republic."

Hmm. given that reasoning, I suppose Russia could claim justification for
"intervening" in the internal affairs of the following, as well:

1. Armenia; 2. Azerbaijan; 3. Belarus; 4. Estonia;
5. Georgia; 6. Kazakhstan; 7. Kyrgyzstan; 8. Latvia;
9. Lithuania; 10. Moldova; 11. Russia; 12. Tajikistan;
13. Turkmenistan; 14. Uzbekistan

Regards,
John


Dear Johnslat

Oh dear, oh dear. I do not know where to begin to counter this. I might start with bringing up the iniquitous Monroe Doctrine, list the many, many more wars of imperialism started by the US and her allies, the coups engineered by US security services, the destablisation of legitimate governments for the United Fruit company, the continued bullying of Cuba, and compare both Russia and the Soviet Union very favourably indeed. But I'll refrain from such obvious replies because I suspect you were merely jesting.


With Communist greetings

Sasha

PS

You forgot the Soviet Union's 'invasion' of Nazi Germany. East Germany didn't exist then, nor Austria in effect, as you surely know...
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