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WARNING ... CIPTC in Shenzhen, China
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jimpellow

Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:04 am Post subject:

johntpartee wrote:

Quote:

Frightening that 25 percent of the Earth's population thinks this way.

Equally frightening is putting 1.4 billion people into a nutshell.

Frightening that you are still not on ziprasidone.

LPKSA

Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 211

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:45 am Post subject:

[quote="muffintop"]

renglish wrote:

Again, sorry for your loss but if you have no other issues with the school I think folks don't need to be afraid to work there.

Good luck with your lawsuit though. Keep us updated on how that pans out for you.

I would say this whole post is a fair warning to anyone who is offered a job by this company.

China brought Confucianism to the world. Confucianism stresses the importance of family and even more importantly, the importance of your parents.

They held the mans passport and he couldn't leave the country; essentially he was incarcerated during a family emergency. Pretty sure that the standard contract for FT's in China mentions something about being able to leave in the event of a death in the family. Can't understand why this all happened when in China it's detrimental to acknowledge and respect your parents at all times (this is an aspect of Chinese culture that stretches back for at least two thousand years). The man was ignored and blown off by his employer, and MISSED his mother's funeral as a result. That to me is a disgrace and should be a clear warning to anyone who is contemplating working for this company. An absolute disgrace.

muffintop

Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:00 pm Post subject:

LPKSA wrote:

muffintop wrote:

Sorry guy. Unless I missed something, I didn't read where he went to the PSB or school and requested his passport for immediate travel. If it was actually refused he could have turned to his consulate/embassy. They could have provided emergency travel documents if necessary.

Disgrace or not, it does not change the above.

Incarcerated? Confucianism? History? What are you rattling on about? Melodramatic much?

Nothing in this thread is a warning to rational individuals against working at this school. There are too many shady schools around to so blithely toss out a so called 'warning' about one. This kind of post does more harm than good.

Do not misunderstand me, I feel for the guy and his situation. More than you could know. Personally....when my Mother was in stage 4 lung cancer that had also spread into other organs, including her brain...and was dying...my wife was REFUSED a visa to travel to the U.S. As our daughter was only 5 months old at the time that refusal essentially meant I could not go home either. I made a difficult choice. I chose to be there for my wife and daughter instead of going home to watch my Mom die. She passed away last year on Valentine's Day. Two weeks after my wife's visa was refused. That sucked. Bad. But I made a choice and do not regret it. Like it or not, the OP also had and made a choice. He could have sat idle and waited or actively done something to speed his return home. He sat idle. Then cried about it and tried to lay blame at the feet of people who did not deserve it. Regardless of how the school handled the renewal process...the OP still had options he did not exercise.

The lawsuit.....is just unbelievable on so many levels.

I sympathize with him for his loss but do not comprehend his actions (or lack thereof) and do not agree with where he is trying to lay the blame.

JamesD

Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 934
Location: "As far as I'm concerned bacon comes from a magical happy place."

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:43 am Post subject: Re: WARNING ... CIPTC in Shenzhen, China

renglish wrote:

....CIPTC delayed processing my new visa, and withheld my passport. I could not leave China until July 25.....

I really would like to be sure of what happened.
You met with someone from the school admin and that person said, "We have your passport here but we will not give it to you. We will not let you leave China".
As has been said, if the passport is in the hands of the PSB then there's not much they COULD have done. The apology is a way of their saying they are sorry for the situation.

EDIT:
A quick search turned up this info on a consulate site. I would guess it's a fast process if they know you need it for 'immediate travel'.

"You may apply for a second U.S. passport under certain specific conditions:
...........................;
a passport is needed for immediate travel is unavailable due to prolonged delays in processing a foreign visa application, ...................."

Last edited by JamesD on Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:03 am; edited 1 time in total

choudoufu

Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:02 am Post subject:

the story just doesn't make sense.......the "top teacher," the only one out of 30 who gets a raise, re-signs a contract. the school that wants that teacher to return refuses to return the passport? why? to keep said teacher in the country an additional three weeks? why? i can't see how school management would think that preventing the teacher from attending a funeral would aid in retention.

LPKSA

Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 211

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:25 am Post subject:

muffintop wrote:

LPKSA wrote:

muffintop wrote:

You would think that taking into consideration all of the cultural nuances China has towards respect of one's parents, that his school administration would have acted on immediately providing him with his passport so that he could make his flight.

It's not rocket science, and I'm not being melodramatic here. I too have had my passport held ransom by my Chinese employer (Xinda College, Shanghai) when they were supposed to be processing my visa for a year long contract, when in fact it was in their office as they were sitting on their ***es. I was unable to leave the country because the US Embassy wanted to collect a fee for providing me with a ticket, which I was unable to provide them with, because I didn't have the money, due to the fact that my employer wasn't paying me. Since I nearly overstayed my visa, immigration threatened to detain me. I ended up having to ask one of my students to lend me money to purchase a ticket out of China and forcing my way into my employers office to get my passport back into my possession. Absolute disgrace.

I hope the OP takes these people to the cleaners. He shouldn't have to go to the embassy. His employer should have said "sorry for your loss here is your passport," but they didn't. They didn't even express their condolences, which shows that they didn't care about him to begin with. And yes, in essence, he was incarcerated, in China, unable to leave, because his passport was withheld. Refrain from personal attacks towards me, I'm simply expressing my understanding of this situation. You obviously are not.

Last edited by LPKSA on Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:32 am; edited 1 time in total

Banner41

Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 656
Location: Shanghai

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:32 am Post subject:

I was in an emergency travel situation a few months back. My passport was with the PSB. I walked into the US consulate (no appointment needed for this service) Brought a couple photos and had a temporary passport in about an hour. It was good for 6 months. Guangzhou is an hour ride from SZ so an easy one day trip. Cost about 700 yuan I believe. So, you are hardly held hostage in the country. It is a sad but good lesson to know all of your options if you have to leave in an emergency.

NoBillyNO

Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:40 am Post subject:

Quote:

China brought Confucianism to the world.

Confucianism brought "confusecianism" to the world.

Quote:

They didn't even express their condolences, which shows that they didn't care about him to begin with.

Do you really expect anyone to care bout you.....if so ...you have my condolences

Quote:

And yes, in essence, he was incarcerated, in China, unable to leave, because his passport was withheld.

Absurd!

muffintop

Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 803

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:22 am Post subject:

LPKSA wrote:

Long story short...you came to China without enough funds stashed away to get outta Dodge. Then you tried to get a freebie from the Embassy as if it were their responsibility to take care of you and wipe your nose.

I'm starting to see why you side with the OP. Peas in a pod.

I know you keep ignoring this little fact......but both you and the OP could have gotten documents to travel on in very short time. Both of you chose not to do so and both of you are complaining about the results. None of you were 'incarcerated' here by anything other than your poor decisions. Accept it and move on.

LPKSA

Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 211

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:24 am Post subject:

muffintop wrote:

LPKSA wrote:

Went to the embassy. Was refused when I asked to speak to an 'American' upon entrance. Was instead told (by a Chinese national) that I would have to pay an extortionate fee in order to receive said documentation which would have enabled me to leave the country, in addition to being in debt to the U.S. Department of State, having to pay them back for providing me with a ticket home. This means that once I were to return home, I would have had to pay the U.S. Dept. of state back (with interest accrued {no surprise there} or else I would not have been permitted to leave the US.). So you can "wipe your nose" on that.

I did not have the money to pay the fee, due to the fact that my employer refused to pay me (and still owes me to this day) approximately the equivalent of 1,500 USD. I was in fact proactive and took it upon myself to get myself out of the country. Can't understand why you see me as being somewhat incompetent or deficient in possessing the ability to take care of a situation I was in, which was caused by someone else. No decisions I made were poor, but since you "decide" to assume that I am in some way deficient in said ability, you lead me to believe that you are suffering from "jaded foreigner in China" syndrome. You need to take a holiday.

roadwalker

Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:08 am Post subject:

Wow, that's good to know that you could get a temporary passport even if the passport wasn't exactly lost. Thanks for the tip, banner41. Newbies: never travel to a foreign country without sufficient means to return home, and then some more means for emergencies and living expenses.

teenoso

Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 365
Location: south china

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:25 am Post subject:

Quote:

Wow, that's good to know that you could get a temporary passport even if the passport wasn't exactly lost. Thanks for the tip, banner41.

agree.... this is very useful to know .
I heard that staff in the press corps that follow Obama around the world can get multiple passports - precisely to deal with this problem of visa processing delays .
Not sure this is possble for ordinary folk , in the USA or UK, but a duplicate passport sure would be useful sometimes.

JamesD

Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 934
Location: "As far as I'm concerned bacon comes from a magical happy place."

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:02 am Post subject:

The info I've found differentiates between a second passport and an emergency travel passport, although both are issued on a case by case basis. Travelers such as the news guys who follow the prez can get a second passport, good for two years, if they are globe-trotting and often have their passports tied up in local bureaucracies. Apparently this takes a bit of paperwork and persuasion but it is an actual second passport. An emergency passport can be issued in the event of the current poster's situation; your passport is unavailable due to it being processed by local authorities. It allows you to travel back home and as previously posted it's a simple process.

NoBillyNO

Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:42 am Post subject:

Quote:

Was refused when I asked to speak to an 'American' upon entrance. Was instead told (by a Chinese national) that I would have to pay an extortionate fee in order to receive said documentation which would have enabled me to leave the country, in addition to being in debt to the U.S. Department of State, having to pay them back for providing me with a ticket home.

This means that once I were to return home, I would have had to pay the U.S. Dept. of state back (with interest accrued {no surprise there} or else I would not have been permitted to leave the US.).
I have been in the situation where as a mud slide took out my bike and passport and the US embassy in VietNam provided me with an emergency passport and I did pay for it there but didn't have to pay for the next one I got when I returned to
China.....did have to have the L visa changed to a RP when I returned and provide a lot of paperwork which was a head ache but if you were in such dire need then you needed to ask for an emergency consultation with the consultant. If they (employers) were holding the passport, this is the place to go to get it released.....

Quote:

So you can "wipe your nose" on that.

When ever the government provides for emergency services they will expect you to pay them back....look at unincorporated areas in the lower 48 now paying the "bill" for any emergency services provided..... emergencies cost money .... fact of life but if you finely persevered in getting your passport back... why did you just do that in the beginning.

Quote:

I did not have the money to pay the fee, due to the fact that my employer refused to pay me

(and still owes me to this day) approximately the equivalent of 1,500 USD. [quote]

Are you talking the fee for the passport, as you already stated that they were gonna let you pay them back for the fight home? There should be no fee for the embassy alerting the local authorities that your passport is being withheld.

Quote:

I was in fact proactive and took it upon myself to get myself out of the country.

Some might question your ideal of proactive procurement of funds through a student.

Quote:

Can't understand why you see me as being somewhat incompetent or deficient in possessing the ability to take care of a situation I was in, which was caused by someone else.

Really sounds from your description that you mal-functioned at the junction of hysteria lane and hand-wringing avenue.

LPKSA

Joined: 02 Mar 2014
Posts: 211

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:30 am Post subject:

[quote="NoBillyNO"]

Quote:

So you can "wipe your nose" on that.

Quote:

I did not have the money to pay the fee, due to the fact that my employer refused to pay me

(and still owes me to this day) approximately the equivalent of 1,500 USD.

Quote:

Are you talking the fee for the passport, as you already stated that they were gonna let you pay them back for the fight home? There should be no fee for the embassy alerting the local authorities that your passport is being withheld.

Quote:

I was in fact proactive and took it upon myself to get myself out of the country.

Some might question your ideal of proactive procurement of funds through a student.

Quote:

Can't understand why you see me as being somewhat incompetent or deficient in possessing the ability to take care of a situation I was in, which was caused by someone else.

Really sounds from your description that you mal-functioned at the junction of hysteria lane and hand-wringing avenue.

When the US Embassy in Vietnam gave you a temporary passport, were you refused service until you payed some kind of fee just to be seen by an American official? If that were the case then, what would have been your plan of action if you didn't have the money to do so, and your employer was cheating you out of your pay? Contracts are, at the end of the day, meaningless, remember?

I did in fact ask to speak with an American, as it was an emergency, instead, I was denied, and eventually told to leave, by the guard.

I forced my way into my employers office to get my passport back, after two weeks of asking them when my passport would be returned to me, with the Z Visa that was promised to me. Was constantly told "tomorrow, tomorrow, be patient, tomorrow," I constantly told them "my current visa expires in two weeks," come on, they were well aware, just plain lazy and incompetent. Back then (2011) it didn't take two weeks to process a visa. It took a matter of hours. A quick stop in Pudong Immi. office would have cleared it up, and it would have been available in a day or two.

Of course there should be no fee for the embassy alerting the officials, but unfortunately, since I was refused service with an American official, and only seen by a Chinese national who was trying to take advantage of the situation, I was at their whim.

My student lent me the money to fly home a day before my visa expired. I paid him back within two months via western union. Really don't know why you continue to make it seem like I did something wrong. It's not like I begged him for the money. Out of the kindness of his heart and understanding of a severely corrupt and backwards system of which I was the victim (similar to the OP here), he lent me the money.

Your post gave me a headache.

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