Job Discussion Forums

[eslandflteacher]

Greetings all,

Given an Arab/Middle Eastern propensity for (over)valuing/ranking British and North American university credentials, how do those that hire in the Gulf region in ESL and other academic areas value/rank South African awards, masters and doctors degrees? I have a friend who has a DEd from UPE and who is interested in applying in the Gulf?

Kenneth

[veiledsentiments]

I've run into a few South Africans through the years teaching around the Gulf. So, I don't think there is any problem. I'd tell him to go ahead and apply.

VS

[eslandflteacher]

Thanks, VS. I am sure there are many. I am interested in learning from HR people who do hiring as to how they would rank applicants--when all is being equal in terms of experience--relative to their South African awards.

In another vein, one could ask about how Australian degrees are viewed in terms of their "marketability" in the Gulf vis a vis North American and British qualifications.

Kenneth

[veiledsentiments]

Gee Kenneth,

I'm not sure that any employer would come on here and actually admit to ranking people by their nationality. I know if I was doing it, the last place I would report my personal prejudices would be live on Dave's board!!

VS

[eslandflteacher]

Dear VS,

In both replies you misconstrued my questions. I am not talking about citizenship of people, rather qualifications. One can be French with American qualifications or Arab with British awards or American with South African degrees (as in deed is the case of my friend on whose behalf I had originally posted). Thus, I am talking about how qualifications are "rated" not people! Therefore, no "gee"s about it!

Un-gee-ly yours,

Kenneth

[Afra]

Why do you think that the Middle East favours British or U.S.degrees? Where I work there are people with degrees from all over the world including South Africa and Australia - lots from Australia. I don't think that anyone believes that degrees are 'ranked' by country; either it is a degree accredited from the country of origin or not and the HR departments usually check this before you sign the contract. There is an academic qualifications equivalency publication which many universities use and your friend could check UPE degrees there.

[Mark100]

There are more and more South Africans working in the Gulf especially in Saudi that i would almost go as far to say that they are preferred these days. They are prepared to accept lower salaries in many instances than Brits and Americans as their cost of living is lower and they also have the advantage of having a "more acceptable international profile"
I have never heard of any problems about their qualifications.
They seem to be well accepted .

[eslandflteacher]

Thanks Afra and Mark for your responses.

To Afra: Why I think American/British qualifications are overly valued and ranks stems from two points: a tendency in the Arab world (where there were colonial ties to England) to send students to Britain and later to the US (and to a lesser extent to Canada), and because I have often been told so by HR professionals in areas other than teaching (e.g. engineering, marketing, management). I was, therefore, extending an argument. I am glad however, as you pointed out, that there are others working with qualifications other than American and British.

To Mark: Thanks Mark for your observations. I certainly will share them with my friend. It is good to know that South Africans and their degrees have an "acceptable international profile".

Kenneth

[veiledsentiments]

Mark100

You said that South Africans would take lower salaries. I am assuming that you are not referring to teachers here. At least at all the places that I taught - which all had the normal mix of counties all over the world (which is why I find this whole question rather bizarre) - teachers were paid in a standardized scale based on degrees and experience.

VS

[Mark100]

VS

I am referrring to all forms of employment.

In some instances in some institutions they will receive the same salary as their western counterparts but this is definitely not always the case.
I have spoken to a few teachers from SA and they were getting salaries like 5000 rats a month and were surprised to find out what others were getting.
Remember, basically anything goes in Saudi.

[veiledsentiments]

mark100

I keep forgetting that Saudi breaks all the 'rules.' (such that they are) I can't imagine that happening at the more professional 'legit' places in the rest of the Gulf. The places that I have taught, Westerners, Sub-Continentals, and other Arabs were paid the same if they had equivalent degrees and experience. The only places that I noticed abuses were when they were given work loads, odd hours, and/or extra duties that the Westerners would probably balk at (and normally win). I couldn't see an Aussie or South African being treated differently than a North American or Brit. At least not at the level of EFL teachers - Perhaps 'rankings' at higher professorial levels may be affected??

And the part that so often bugs me is that so many people (especially Americans I fear) tend to assume that Saudi IS the Middle East and it is the place that sets the standards.

VS

[Signor]

I've just been speaking to a South African who has been teaching in KSA and Oman and he told me that his salary is usually lower than his colleagues from the USA and UK.

Don't know how widespread this is but he teaches in secondary schools.

[dmb]

You can't pay people a different salary based on their nationality. That is blatant racism. Aren't people on different salaries because of their qualifications and experience?

[veiledsentiments]

DMB

I have not seen it happen at tertiary level - all expat English teachers I have worked with were always on the same scale as I was - based on, as you say, education and experience. But the primary and secondary schools are normally under a different Ministry. You hear stories like this.

Blatant racism? In the Gulf? I am more surprised that you are surprised.

VS

[Stephen Jones]

Salary scales throughout the Gulf are based on nationality. There are normally two scales - a westerner/Saudi scale (equivalent but different in perks) and a third world scale.

South Africa is sometimes considered Third World and sometimes First; depends on the institution.

Unlike what dmb naively believes salaries are based on market forces.