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The Current State of the Ukraine
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: Ukraine Reply with quote

grahamb wrote:
After what happened in Crimea, I think the US and the EU will have told Vlad in no uncertain terms to keep his hands off the Ukraine.
Warnings, sanctions and/or directions for other nation's leaderships what to do or not is the way the exemplary US/EU politicians have been handling situations around the world.

johnslat wrote:
Let the Punishment fit the Crime(a).
Drolly entertaining. The McDonlad's CEO's spoken.

With respects from the United World
Joe
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wonderingjoesmith,

Could you, please, clarify this remark: "The McDonlad's CEO's spoken."?

Whom are you referring to? Not I, surely; I don't even patronize fast-food establishments. Moreover, it doesn't seem to be a sentence (unless the "s" in CEO's is a contraction for "has"). And I don't mean to be at all snide when I say that I don't get what you were trying to communicate (by the way, I'm not talking about the typo.)

And would you be able to give me the specific geographical location of the "United World?"

Regards,
John
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear johnslat,

Doesn't your "Let the Punishment fit the Crime(a)" suit McDonald's decision to pull out of the region?

Good for you that you don't patronize such establishments but don't do it with messengers. I doubt you are as thick as you sometimes present yourself.

Respectfully yours,
Joe
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grahamb



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Rock an droll Reply with quote

Never mind, John, I enjoyed the Crime(a) witticism. Perhaps it flew over Joe's nest. Wink
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have we had this joke yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gn9A-kdsRo
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wonderingjoesmith

"Good for you that you don't patronize such establishments but don't do it with messengers. I doubt you are as thick as you sometimes present yourself."

Maybe I AM as thick as I sometimes present myself. First, I was unaware that McDonald's had left the Crimea (must have missed the "Breaking News Flash" somehow). Second, I am at a loss as to what "don't do it with messengers" means.

What messengers? Are said messengers patronizing McDonald's?

At any rate, don't despair about the loss of McDonald's. "Burger King Expands Into Crimea After McDonald's Exit."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/burger-king-expands-into-crimea-after-mcdonalds-exit/497813.html

Given its name, that company will likely be much more adaptable to Putin's idea of how a government should be run. Very Happy

Regards,
John
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sasha,

Is this the one?

"During the days of the Soviet Union, the Crimea River pretty much sucked. There was hardly any water in it at all.

However, during the breakup of the former Soviet Union, the river meandered to spend more time with familiar surroundings and headed in a new direction. It was now able to flow where it chose to, without having to rely on other, less aesthetic rivers.

Realizing that he left his favorite stuffed animal at his ex-girlfriend's house in Crimea 20 years ago, Vladimir Putin launched a massive invasion of the entire region in 2014.

Unfortunately, when his troops reached the banks of Crimea River they were overcome by intense sadness and long looks back at their lives. U.S. President Barack Obama threatened Moscow with bare-bottom spanctions if they continued to endanger the Sexy stability of the region, which the U.S. had spent decades restoring after the Cold War. After 2 days, Putin called off the invasion, stating that "I don't know, I just wasn't feeling it ya know? I'm just really stressed out right now."

Happily, the Russian Army remained in position around each airport (to help passengers with their luggage) and in front of government buildings and broadcast studios. The people of the Crimea expressed their appreciation with a historic vote to return to Mother Russia."

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Crimea_River

Regards,
John
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wangdaning



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was an invasion in Crimea.

I thought the people voted in an internationally observed vote. Not like those you see in Iraq or Afghanistan, but a vote. I also heard about the military desiring to switch sides, away from Ukraine, went to Russia. So sad for all those people killed in this invasion.

RIP Ronald
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wangdaning

"There was an invasion in Crimea."

Good call.

Ah yes - those "international observers"

"On March 10, 2014 the de facto Prime Minister of Crimea, Sergei Aksionov, made an unofficial verbal invitation to OSCE to monitor the plebiscite as well.[100][101] However, later in the day, an OSCE spokeswoman said that Crimea did not have the authority to invite the organization into the region as it is not a fully-fledged state and, therefore, incapable of requesting services provided exclusively to OSCE members.[101] On March 11, the OSCE chair, Switzerland's Foreign Minister Didier Burkhalter, declared the referendum as unconstitutional and therefore the OSCE would not send observers.[102] OSCE observers attempted to enter the region four times but were turned away, with shots fired,[103][104] which was another reason given for not dispatching referendum observers.[105]

OSCE also published a report about their observations which "produced significant evidence of equipment consistent with the presence of Russian Federation military personnel in the vicinity of the various roadblocks encountered".[106]

The UN Human Rights Envoy Ivan Simonovic had to cancel his trip to Crimea as the current situation did not permit his travel. He intended to observe the human rights situation which was Russia's explanation for its engagement in Crimea.[107]

According to the historian Timothy Snyder,

Moscow sent an invitation to parties of the European far right, and found politicians willing to serve as "observers."

These included Luc Michel, formerly of the French neo-Nazi party Fédération d'action nationale et européenne (currently supporting National Bolshevism), Enrique Ravello, formerly of the Spanish neo-Nazi party CEDADE (currently of the far-right Platform for Catalonia) and Béla Kovács of the Hungarian neo-Nazi party Jobbik. They certified that the Crimean referendum was legitimate.[108]

Concerns have been raised about the objectivity of Russian-invited observers and the fact that the Eurasian Observatory for Democracy & Elections (EODE), claiming to be election monitoring organization, has ties to far-right and neo-nazi groups.[109][110] The mission leader Mateusz Piskorski is a well-known antisemite and admirer of Adolf Hitler,[111] and the EODE leader Luc Michel is an antisemite and neo-Nazi as well.[111]

Shaun Walker from The Guardian reported that during a press conference on the eve of the referendum, some of the aforementioned observers "went on political rants against U.S. hegemony in the world", describing the press conference as "rather bizarre".[f] Exit-polls were allowed only for the Republican Institute of Sociological Research since, according to Russia-24, no other organizations have applied for accreditation for exit polls.[113]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_status_referendum,_2014#Observers

Great bunch of clearly impartial, objective guys.

Regards,
John
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wangdaning



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, from wikipedia, the international bodies refused to let a state hold a vote? (edit, what I mean is by not being a state they can't have a vote, good call?)

I see where this leads and no. We need no more war.
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wonderingjoesmith



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear John,

Facts about the Crimean referendum are truly compelling and so are the messengers. What we may never know is that how all that would have turned out had the pro-American international experts showed up there. Would it all have been the same cup of tea or the starbucks caffe latte?

The "Great bunch of clearly impartial, objective guys" could have easily been substituted by Hillary Clinton. Too bad that Hamid Karzai hasn't been as thankful as the 60 % of Crimean Russians would have been had she put her hand on the ballots. The elected Afghan well knows today that messing with Yankees isn't the greatest political campaign even if it means in his homeland.

Sadly enough, there are plenty more in our administrations who may more than match Hillary's touch and who may share much more painful experiences than Hamid. I doubt that either people in Simferopol or Moscow would budge like some others have.

I look forward to more inspiring convictions from you.

Respectfully yours,
Joe the unpatronizing messenger
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wnaderingjoesmith,

When is an election not an election? Answer: When it's a charade. So, now Crimea can be added to the Hall of Shame list of charade elections: "Human Rights Watch has documented a number of elections manipulated through: outright fraud (Chad, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Nigeria, Uzbekistan); control of electoral machinery (Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Malaysia, Thailand, Zimbabwe); blocking or discouraging opposition candidates (Belarus, Cuba, Egypt, Iran, Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, Libya, Turkmenistan, Uganda); political violence (Cambodia, Democratic Republic of Congo, Ethiopia, Lebanon); stifling the media and civil society (Russia, Tunisia); and undermining the rule of law (China, Pakistan)."

http://www.hrw.org/news/2008/01/30/2008-report-democracy-charade-undermines-rights

But wait - wasn't Crimea's election "legitimate?" Ah, no, it wasn't, not by any stretch of the imagination.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26546133

Regards,
John
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wangdaning



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear wnaderingjoesmith,

When is an election not an election? Answer: When it's a charade. So, now Crimea can be added to the Hall of Shame list of charade elections: "Human Rights Watch has documented a number of elections manipulated through: outright fraud (Chad, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Nigeria, Uzbekistan); control of electoral machinery (Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Malaysia, Thailand, Zimbabwe); blocking or discouraging opposition candidates (Belarus, Cuba, Egypt, Iran, Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, Libya, Turkmenistan, Uganda); political violence (Cambodia, Democratic Republic of Congo, Ethiopia, Lebanon); stifling the media and civil society (Russia, Tunisia); and undermining the rule of law (China, Pakistan)."

http://www.hrw.org/news/2008/01/30/2008-report-democracy-charade-undermines-rights

But wait - wasn't Crimea's election "legitimate?" Ah, no, it wasn't, not by any stretch of the imagination.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26546133

Regards,
John


So what you mean is the Americans and Europeans are angry. What do the Crimeans think? Are you or any of us there to say what you imply. Facts from bbc, ha. Like how Assad used chem weapons in Syria.

We only slander until people forget.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wangdaning,

If you can look at all the FACTS of that election and consider it "legitimate," here's hoping you never have to teach critical thinking.

But wait - you're a "truther." too, aren't you - vaccinations cause diseases; don't vaccinate your kids.

So, facts are irrelevant.

Regards,
John
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wangdaning



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are comfortable with that. A fact is a fact and not open to argument. Stating your argument as fact has a few implications.

As far as critical thinking, well, disagree with John (oddly my first name too) and you shouldn't teach it.

John, I don't want a flame war. We simply have different viewpoints, I hope that is OK.
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