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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:37 am Post subject: |
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I believe that the required "certificate" is only for Muslim converts.
VS |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Once you make it over here you can stick to your principles and jolly well say your a Buddhist or an Atheist if you want.  |
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John Kalani
Joined: 05 Mar 2014
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Good for them. I happen to be an atheist and am considering taking up terror. Glad they're on top of it. |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| There are in fact Atheist terrorists, for instance Anarchists. Anarchist terrorists were prevalent around the turn of the last century. |
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trapezius
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Land of Culture of Death & Destruction
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Eh, this is nothing new actually. Outside observers have to understand that this does not mean that the authorities will be trying to flush out saudi atheists. The law targets those who try to spread any 'deviant' ideology and call others to it, be it atheism, Christianity, Islamic extremism/terrorism, democracy, anti-Saudi monarchy, etc. (basically, any public belief or activity that is anti-government, anti-royal family, or anti-Islam)
Saudis over the years have been arrested and detained for years, some without charge, for propagating such beliefs (many of them calling for elections or democracy, others for speaking against the royal family, and others for inciting terrorism) on social media or by word of mouth. No harm will come to those who believe in such things in the privacy of their own homes and among close friends.
Believe it or not, there is an active and huge group of saudi atheists who meet regularly and debate various issues in the privacy of their homes. There was an article on some news site some time ago in which they interviewed a few of them. |
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mashkif
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| sicklyman wrote: |
| [...]In comparison, at least suicide bombers can only kill once rather than inflict decades of needless slaughter. 'Great' atheists like Stalin and Mao come to mind... |
Except they did not kill anybody in the name of atheism; they killed because they were deviant douchebags.
In contrast, countless massacres and pogroms occurred in the name of preserving or advancing a religion. |
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mashkif
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear cwright,
This has come up before - all you need to do is put down "Christian." You don't have to PROVE you're a "Christian."
Avoid putting anything like "Buddhist" which will likely seem "odd." If you're a "Westerner," you're expected to be "Christian," so just give them what they expect (and want.)
Regards,
John |
I put "None" on my application form, and was somewhat taken aback when I got my I.D. card with "masi7i" written on it -.- So yes, the presumption is definitely there.
Religion rarely came up in conversations, but when I was asked, I always said I was an atheist (mel7ad), which I then had to explain. Many of them consider atheism to be a form of mental illness, even if Saudi Arabia apparently has one of the highest proportion of (admittedly, very closet) atheists in the world. |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| mashkif wrote: |
Except they did not kill anybody in the name of atheism; they killed because they were deviant douchebags.
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They did kill in the name of ideologies that had supplanted religion and supplanted established moral imperatives. They were also far more ruthless than any religion ever was, at least in my opinion. The deviant douchebags that were in society still dominated by religion could only go so far before the structure was able to remove them. That unfortunately did not happen to Mao, Hitler and Stalin. |
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CanukBook
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 6
Location: Canada, ey?
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:33 am Post subject: Listing a Religion on Forms |
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Before I came to The Kingdom, my employer advised us to write either "Muslim" if we were Muslim, or "Other" if we were anything else.
DON'T tell anyone here that you are Buddhist. Why? Because Christians and Jews are considered "People of the Book" since the Quran, Bible and Torah share the first five books, which were written by Moses, I believe. "Religion" or not, Buddhism is non-theistic, and my understanding is that Islam considers Buddhists to be atheists.
If any Saudi, student or otherwise, tries to engage you in conversation about "religion" or "belief," simply tell them, politely, that you are not allowed by your employer to discuss such matters, then change the subject ... |
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mashkif
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| plumpy nut wrote: |
| mashkif wrote: |
Except they did not kill anybody in the name of atheism; they killed because they were deviant douchebags.
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They did kill in the name of ideologies that had supplanted religion and supplanted established moral imperatives. They were also far more ruthless than any religion ever was, at least in my opinion. The deviant douchebags that were in society still dominated by religion could only go so far before the structure was able to remove them. That unfortunately did not happen to Mao, Hitler and Stalin. |
Those ideologies supplanted a lot of other things, such as private ownership of property. Perhaps THAT caused the massacres, rather than supplanting religion.
As far as being more ruthless, that was only the case because of the time period in which they operated respectively. If the Arab/Moslem conquerors or Crusaders had had automatic weapons, mechanized transit, and explosives, the numbers involved would have been VERY different. Thank "god" they didn't  |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Listing a Religion on Forms |
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| CanukBook wrote: |
| Because Christians and Jews are considered "People of the Book" since the Quran, Bible and Torah share the first five books, which were written by Moses, I believe. |
Yes, all three are the considered "people of the book" but from there... all is wrong. Moses never wrote anything as far as we know, nor is there any claim that he did. Nor does the Quran share any of the books of the Old Testament. What they share are prophets and stories - although a read of their various holy books will find variations in the tales.
VS |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm. The Pentateuch is believed, by those who believe that sort of thing, to have been written by Moses. Even Wikipedia says so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentateuch
No matter. Modern scholarship shows us the truth... |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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And a guy named Homer wrote the Iliad and the Odyssey. 
Regards,
John |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Who am I to question "The Wiki," but one doesn't hear that claim in mainline Protestantism. Most of that branch seem to claim that 'god' wrote it.
I blame it on Ceiling Cat...
VS |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Well, mainline Protestantism, or even mainstream Protestantism, does not have sole claim on having claims on Moses' putative penmanship. So there IS a claim out there! An old one. Perhaps not oldline, but still...
Have to go back to my Hegel studies now. Far easier to read than any of the above. |
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