Job Discussion Forums

xswa2003 · Joined: 28 Mar 2003 Posts: 6

Is there a difference in the mind of my prospective employer? If so, which one pays more? It wouldn't be that hard to add expert to my resume.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Legally, technically the term is foreign expert. I think maybe a long long time ago there were both, a real old timer like Roger should know.
If your school can hire you legally, give you your residence pemit, etc, you will be a foreign expert. This is the only legal classification for you to work here as a teacher. It is what they give you, so you don't need to put it on your resume. We are all foreign experts.
Ain't that a hoot!

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Even old timers can be relatively clueless, Chirs! Is "expert" a term of endearment? Is "foreign" a disqualifier?
I remember in my first job we had applicants with Bachelor's and those with Master's, and the FAO referred to the latter as "foreign experts".
They were supposed to get higher pay!

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Well roger, I was planning on teaching my writing class what an oxymoron is, but I guess they already know.
Chinese have learned their lesson well from western management. Never give raises, just promote people. So instead of giving more money to the foreign expert, they just made everyone a foreign expert. You've got to admire their savvy, yes?

dan · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 247 Location: shanghai

from what ive gleaned, an "expert" is one with an advanced degree whereas a "teacher" is someone with 'only' a BA. however, this seems to be a distinction that only universities adhere to (the distinction is for renumerative purposes) - or so it seems, or more appropriately put, "reads".

MW · Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 115 Location: China

The 1994 Foreign Expert's Guide published by the State Bureau of Foreign Experts made a distinction between a teacher as one with a BA degree and an Expert as one with an MA or PHD. The distinction was dropped in the 1999 reprint. Now, everyone is issued a Foreign Expert's Certificate.

However, public universities maintain the distinction, as do some middle schools, but only for pay classification. BA = 3,500; MA = 4,000, PhD = 4,500 etc.

gerard · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 581 Location: Internet Cafe

arioch---are you suggesting that "foreign expert" is an oxymoron???HAHAHAHAHAAAAAA you are killing me. I am an expert (sp) on something just not sure what...HAHAHAAAAAAA.

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

Just to reconfirm MW...Foreign expert is the only classification. When it comes to China, bargain bargain bargain. Many colleges do have a plan to pay higher degreed people more (though they are uasually worse teachers) I have always insisted on being paid more because of my experience...no problem.

boycep_au · Joined: 11 Apr 2003 Posts: 3 Location: Australia

I was always lead to believe that
X "Was an unknown factor" and
spert "a drip under pressure"
But what do I know. I want to be a foreign expert.

MW · Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 115 Location: China

Major Change -

The 2002 manual for Foreign Experts, published by the State Office of Foreign Experts, makes a new distinction between Foreign Teachers and Foreign Experts.

Foreign Teachers are your every day run of the mill English, French, German, Japanese, Russian etc. language as L2 teachers.

Foreign Experts are distinguished foreign Professors (Ph.D.) invited to China to teach substantive subjects, like English is not substantive, right?

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, if it does, with respect to salary structure. Everyone still receives the same Foreign Expert Certificate, at least for now.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

If you, MW, are right, then I can imagine why the CHinese have introduced this two-tiered system:
Teaching oral English IS not a substantive subject!
The "substantive" parts of teaching English are being done by underpaid Chinese teachers!

But Chinese teachers have been fleeing the TEFL scene.

Maybe there has been an oversupply of oral teachers and a concurrent undersupply of English teachers, which the authorities want to balance out, hence the hiring of better-educated foreign English teachers!

Let's hope they are also going to reform their own education system, in particular the instruction of foreign languages! The current teaching of English is a total mess and absolutely counterproductive. It's so bad it can only improve! If expats were to teach English from ground level, laying a solid foundation and teaching the "substantive" subjects themselves (without using Chinese), it would improve quickly!
But that is not to be expected! FE's will continue to be misallocated to schools who just want to have a foreign face to show off.