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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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 Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Dear rollingk,
Well, you're not on the Serengeti, and if you want to get country specific, there are a lot more horses in Saudi than there are zebras.
Regards,
John |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| rollingk wrote: |
| Why do some of us always assume in direct hire situations that if an offer is low, it must be because the applicant is lacking something. All across Arabia employers in general are short of respectability, and will try to get anything over on you that they can. Some of us live in a kinda candyland where the only bad guys are recruitment and contract companies. This simply isn't the case. |
Your position that employers across Arabia lack respectibility and will try to pull a fast one on you is itself a generalization. It's not about living in "candyland"; it's simply that readers of this forum won't see anywhere near the number of complaints (if any) about others' work experiences under direct-hire employers compared to the major contracting companies. However, if you have knowledge of continuous sketchy practices by numerous direct-hire employers, what's keeping you from posting that information for others' benefit? (And I'm not being flippant or sarcastic with this question.)
| and wrote: |
| I think trying to find blame in applicants in an environment where employer ethics are so negligible is certainly jumping to conclusions. |
No one is "blaming" anyone---there's no supposition of guilt or innocence or questionable ethics. We're simply speculating based on our knowledge or direct experience with certain employers since the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Moreover, we really don't have the whole picture, the specifics related to the job offer, and are just getting one person's perspective---one that involves making a very personal, major decision. Anyway, the OP will hopefully get a response from the recruiter and subsequently, take whatever actions based on that info. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jumpingmonkey wrote: |
I read somewhere (can't remember if it was on this forum or on the ELI's website) that the salary was calculated using the following formula:
(4200 SAR + {340 SAR times the number of years experience} ) the whole total multiplied by 1.85.
Based on this formula, it seems they counted only 4 out of your 5 years experience if they are offering 10,200 SAR.
A related question: Does anyone know with what rigor they stick this formula for new hires? |
There's a reason why many government universities don't include a salary amount in their job ads for direct hires. You really have to apply to find out what your qualifications/experience are worth because there are variables used in calculating salary. Plus, keep in mind your teaching experience must be verified in writing from each previous employer; otherwise, forget about it being counted in determining your salary. |
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AMINK
Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Just had an email from KAU telling me the reason they have to offer me 10,200 SAR per month wage is because I recently obtained my Masters (2013) and thus the previous 5 years experience which I had does not count towards anything.
Apparently this is according to Saudi law, they can only take your experience after your most recent qualification.
Is this the absolute truth in all cases?? And can the Uni use it's own discretion to adjust my salary?? |
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baa_baa
Joined: 04 Dec 2011
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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hi AMINK,
try Taibah university before you finalize your decision. They are so quick and their email was so much better than what I had received from KAU. I think my next stop will be there after 5 more years at KAU.. I have few plans.
Based on that I am assuming you MIGHT get a better offer. Just try your luck you never know..
I applied to KAU and they replied to me after a year 
good luck |
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AMINK
Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, thanks I think I will give Taibah Uni a go and see what they say.
Do you have a direct email to send my application to ? |
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baa_baa
Joined: 04 Dec 2011
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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 bump |
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cultofpersonality
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| AMINK....that is nonsense! |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| AMINK wrote: |
Just had an email from KAU telling me the reason they have to offer me 10,200 SAR per month wage is because I recently obtained my Masters (2013) and thus the previous 5 years experience which I had does not count towards anything.
Apparently this is according to Saudi law, they can only take your experience after your most recent qualification.
Is this the absolute truth in all cases?? And can the Uni use it's own discretion to adjust my salary?? |
That's what I'd suspected, and yes, this requirement is common in the Gulf, though not all employers may treat pre-degree experience this way. It's probably more of a mandate from the Ministry of Higher Ed than it is Saudi law. Also, be aware that KAU's ELI has to maintain their CEA accreditation, which has its own requisite standards that likely impact teacher recruitment. But basically, experience gained prior to completing a relevant BA and/or MA (and TEFL cert) is ideal because it indicates to the employer that the teacher already had the appropriate knowledge and training before ever stepping into their first teaching situation. |
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lcanupp1964
Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| KAU's ELI has a big review coming up with CEA. They got a one year probationary accreditation and if they pass the next round, they will get a three-year accreditation, so everyone is running around over reacting a tad. I feel if they pass the next round, they will be more relaxed when giving out offer letters. During the first main inspection, the overall recruitment process didn't do too well in regards to the ratio of native speakers of English Vs. non-native speakers, with the number of teachers with BA's Vs. those with Ma's, and with the total years of experience among the ELI faculty. |
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terramesa
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:25 pm Post subject: King Abdulaziz University |
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| Can you get a job in King Abdulaziz University with the following qualifications: Master Degree in Agriculture, 2 years teaching experience in Korea Public Schools, CELTA, and State Teacher License in Florida |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: King Abdulaziz University |
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| terramesa wrote: |
| Can you get a job in King Abdulaziz University with the following qualifications: Master Degree in Agriculture, 2 years teaching experience in Korea Public Schools, CELTA, and State Teacher License in Florida |
I doubt it. According to their most recent job ad, their requirements are as follows (with related MAs given preference):
MA in TESL, TEFL, Applied Linguistics, or any related equivalent from an accredited university; or BA in English plus a Certificate/Diploma in English Language Teaching and a minimum experience of three years in teaching English. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| KAU's ELI has a big review coming up with CEA. They got a one year probationary accreditation and if they pass the next round, they will get a three-year accreditation, so everyone is running around over reacting a tad. I feel if they pass the next round, they will be more relaxed when giving out offer letters. During the first main inspection, the overall recruitment process didn't do too well in regards to the ratio of native speakers of English Vs. non-native speakers, with the number of teachers with BA's Vs. those with Ma's, and with the total years of experience among the ELI faculty. |
From the CEA Standards for International Reviews:
Faculty Standard 1: Faculty members have education and training commensurate with their teaching assignments.
....
Informal preparation may be useful and may enhance faculty members' effectiveness, but formal education is a necessary component of their preparation. Faculty requirements must be consistent with and directly support the program or institution’s mission, established curriculum, and other program components.
• The bachelor’s degree is considered the baseline qualification for teaching in a postsecondary language program or institution.
• The master’s degree is highly valued and is considered the baseline qualification for teaching college and university preparation courses.
• In some program or institutional contexts, the doctorate may be the appropriate degree and may be required by the program or institution. |
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rollingk
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 212
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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 . . . Those pesky standards again! |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| rollingk wrote: |
| . . . Those pesky standards again! |
Meaning...? Those "pesky" standards were established by the Commission on English Language Accreditation (http://cea-accredit.org/) and not by the Saudi MoHE, to review ESL programs in the US and abroad. |
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