Job Discussion Forums

[Voyeur]

Consensus seems to be that a masters degree currently provides few direct financial or job security benefits in China. I'm thinking about TESOL/Applied Linguistics degrees in particular, but we can consider other, less relevant, MAs as well.

However, markets tend to mature. There was a time when you could teach at uni in Korea, for example, with just a BA. Now that is becoming much more difficult. "Serious" ESL Lifers are even talking about the need to get a doctorate if you are young now and preparing for a long future in the industry. Japan may have followed a similar track, though I know less about that.

Currently, China doesn't even require a bachelor's; however, an undergraduate degree is important to many employers. Longer term, do you see a need for a masters? Or at least a benefit from it? If so, in which ways? And over what kind of timeline?

[Shroob]

[mw182006]

It seems like the smart thing to do if you're planning on teaching long term, be it in China or elsewhere. I think job security IS a direct benefit; you'll have more job options to choose from and you are likely to be more qualified than many others applying for the same job. For me it'd be about gaining more competence/confidence in the classroom. This was my first year (teaching uni) and I feel like I struggled a bit. The students were at a very low level and I didn't really know where to start. I'm hoping a MA in TESOL will help me to determine/target specific deficiencies and build a cohesive syllabus around them, and things of that nature. I'm moving to a public uni next semester where the students are supposedly a little more advanced, so after a year there I will probably figure out next steps. The uni schedule provides so much free time that I really have no excuse not to do it.

[Didah]

Hi,

I mentioned on another thread that the jobs in China that pay the most money and growth potential are the bridge programs that require a state or provincial teaching credential. If you haven't started the masters yet, you may want to look into getting a teaching license if you can teach middle or high school students. With the teaching credential, you open the door for international schools. I have noticed that more teaching credential programs can be done on line from universities like Phoenix, Brandman or Concordia. Just a thought.

[Shroob]

[Voyeur]

The teaching license does require a lot of investment. Often you have to top up your Bachelor's degree with courses if you want a specialty that isn't elementary. Then you have to do a year of teacher's college. And after that you generally need 1 year teaching in one of the major English countries; 2 years if you want to be safe and able to apply for the better international schools.

And of course the better international schools tend to be similar to schools back home, i.e. lots of bureaucracy and non-teaching duties. Maybe not quite so bad, but the prep-to-teach ratio is still a lot higher than in ESL. Or so I have heard. Correct me if I have anything wrong. On the plus side, mo' money and you can teach content classes.

The problem I have with an online MA is that it seems like a waste to get your MA and rule out the most lucrative teaching options: the Persian Gulf. One may not want to be in the Gulf regularly, but if I had an MA TESOL I could see wanting to teach in the Middle East a year in five to help with the retirement fund. Also, there is the danger of some other key country (including China), deciding to look down on non-residential MAs.

I've always wondered if there was a way to do a residential MA TESOL at one of the Chinese campuses for UK or US universities, ideally done over 2-3 years with enough time to teach at the same time (so you don't go overly cash negative).

[SledgeCleaver]

If you get a master's, I would recommend you get one that leads to teacher licensure. Call the program and make sure your program will qualify you for "initial licensure." If you do this, you will be theoretically qualified to teach in basically any middle or high school in the world in your subject (for example TESOL), though of course the best positions will require experience. But this means that with experience, you could get into the international school circuit, which means money and benefits. Definitely smart if you're thinking about saving lots of money fast, or raising a family. You could also think hard about subject certifications, for exampla ELA (English/Language Arts) if you're an English major, and teach literature etc. rather than ESL. I know that's what I'd prefer. I mean, if I could go back and do it over again, I'd probably study music or art and teach one of those; there are actually a very respectable number of openings, and it would be a cool job.

A master's is definitely going to raise a lot of glass ceilings and probably improve the long-term trajectory of your career, especially if you have a professional teaching qualification/license. Even if you stay in China TESOL rather than do subjects or international schools, could still lead to a DOS or similar position, or a job at one of the Western-sponsored unis (Nottingham, etc.)

It's also going to help you be a better teacher. It's an investment in time and money, and I can't say how efficient it always is, but there's no doubt that you will get better and have a way better toolbox.

Of course, to get a teaching license, you will generally need to student teach for one semester. This tends to be very expensive, since you work but don't get paid. And you'd probably have to do it in a western country, unless you go for alternative certification (for example Teacher Ready, which is at the University of West Florida). Alternative certification is easier, for example you can do it while working at a high school overseas, but again, the long-term trajectory is lower, and I think you risk applying for a job that doesn't allow alternative certifications. Classic certifications, for example a PGCE or U.S. state license, are basically respected everywhere; alternative certifications will not be accepted by many (or even most) international schools, and for all I know, some countries ban them altogether (ie. Persian Gulf, Singapore, Hong Kong etc. ). Not every state in USA allows alternative cert, though some do, often the more right-wing ones who first of all are less "regulatory" and also, oftentimes, have fewer qualified people than midwest/New England/west coast states.

Online degrees are definitely iffy. I don't think employers like them very much. It's better than nothing, but you will be at a disadvantage compared to people who did brick-and-mortar.

In short, it's not for everyone. But if you're already thinking quite hard about it, you probably have very good reasons for that, and my gut-level feeling is that you should find a way to do it (financially and in terms of location) and pull the trigger.

[Didah]

SledgeCleaver,

Well said. You put the teaching credential and master's in good perspective. You are right that one must be careful about the type of licensing program that is pursued. In the United States, the biggest concern in any teacher credentialing program is that here is a semester of successful student teaching. Once the license is granted, it holds the same weight regardless of the program. There is also an opportunity to get paid for student teaching if the person is the classroom teacher of record as an intern student teacher.

Teaching in an international school is a lot harder than ESL teaching. There are standards that have to be addressed, intense lesson planning such as Backwards by Design and a lot of oversight. Some international schools are have a fairly diverse student and teacher populations from expats and local hires. Other, like many in China, mainly serve Chinese students looking to go to an Anglophone university.

From my experience, having both the teaching credential and the masters have opened different doors. At some point the masters is helpful in K-12 if you want to advance into administration or another academic leadership role.
Good Luck.

[Voyeur]

I believe that two essentially different career paths are being conflated: teaching content classes in English at an international school and teaching ESL.

If you want to take the international school route, you do need teacher certification. Depending on the country, you may just have a Bachelors in Education, or you could get a Masters, or a PGCE. Of course having a true Masters in your field (History, Math, English Lit, etc.) as well as a teaching certificate will make you more attractive to employers. But you don't necessarily need one. The key here is the teacher certification. While the certification may only require a smaller amount of teaching in your home country, as far as I know, most international schools want a full two years of teaching in an English country in order to be considered.

Teacher qualification, with or without a Masters, can help you get quality ESL jobs of course. And many of them don't require that much preparation as they are ESL, and not true international school teaching (they of course pay less as well). But this doesn't see like the best use of a teacher certification in the long run--you really should be aiming for international school content teaching.

There are some hybrid options for certified teachers though. You can teach at some International programs at Chinese schools where you teach content in English, not true ESL. You get less than at a decent international school, but more than most ESL teachers. And you get most of the ESl teaching benefits (less hoops to jump through, low hours, etc.)

I was asking more about whether a Masters in TESOL or Applied Linguistics is a good idea for those who want to stay on the ESL teaching track. ESL is ultimately less lucrative in general than international school teaching, but you also have way less bureaucracy to deal with. No mammoth lesson plans and all the other hoops "real teachers" have to deal with. Getting a MA TESOL and a DELTA seem like the ideal qualifications here, as you can get a bit of a 2-for-1 here by getting credit for the DELTA towards your MA.

These opinions are just based on my own internet research. If I have anything wrong, please let me know.

[Non Sequitur]

[Voyeur]

I don't understand exactly what these "Bridge" programs are. Could someone shed some light?

I do know more about International schools, though. And I believe it is a different kettle of fish from ESL teaching. Some people might just prefer ESL style teaching: teaching English language rather than content in English, more casual work atmosphere, less hours, teach college students and adults, etc.

I know a teaching license and all that ensues can help you in ESL, but a MA TESOL might be a more efficient upgrade if you clearly don't want to teach in International schools.

[fat_chris]

Oh! I had a New York State K-12 ESL teaching license but it has expired (left the country and the NYCDOE for five years). I guess I should look into somehow "unexpiring" it--I wonder how I can go about doing it. All of a sudden it seems like a nice thing to have.

Warm regards,
fat_chris

[Shroob]

[Bud Powell]

[fat_chris]