Job Discussion Forums

[The_Big_White_Elephant]

I was just wondering why it seems that the vast majority of people on this site seem to work at universities? Do most foreigners in China work at universities?

Just by looking at the China job boards here on Dave's, it seems like most of them are for primary/middle/high school jobs, so why does there seem to be a lack of people at this site who teach at these levels? What are the pros/cons of teaching at a university vs. teaching at a primary/middle/high school? Is it simply a matter of whether or not you like teaching children?

Thanks.

[Javelin of Radiance]

University jobs leave you with so much free time, you only work 12-16 hours a week. That's the main reason.

The membership of this forum is not very diverse at all, and you'll find that most of the posts are made by a small number of people. Not much different from other forums I presume.

[Bud Powell]

Javelin speaks the truth. I'm not sure where the majority of forum members works. My impression is that most work for private schools, and that has been the case through the years.

Nobody who works for a public university in China makes the 12-21,000 rmb per month that is frequently tossed around.

Kindergarten, primary, middle and secondary schools pay more than university jobs largely because of the greater demands placed upon the teacher. If you have no experience teaching seventh graders back home, don't even think of trying it in China.

[Javelin of Radiance]

[Voyeur]

I feel that most university teachers here understate the time commitment. When you throw everything in, including wasted time between classes and prep work and marking, I think it probably comes closer to 25 hours a week on average.

[Bud Powell]

[Javelin of Radiance]

Language mill jobs still take up a lot more (work) time than a university (sometimes double the hours in class, or nearly double), and there's usually a commute, sometimes a very lengthy one. Prep time also had to be taken more seriously at the mill job because you get assessed/observed more often. I lived that life before and by the end of the day the last thing I wanted to do was spend it on a forum. Maybe most of the people on here aren't at universities, will we ever really know? So many new names popping up all the time, all these newcomers, coming and going. And then coming back again. And then leaving. Again.

There was a poll question on here before asking which type of job people worked at but it fizzled out after it slid further down the page.

[The_Big_White_Elephant]

So are language mills the only option for teaching children/teens? Is it possible to teach these age groups in a more relaxed setting with under 20 hours per week?

So now I've read that starting out at a university and starting out teaching children are both bad ideas. So where do people recommend starting out for someone with no experience?

[Shroob]

[The_Big_White_Elephant]

Thanks for the reply, Shroob! That was helpful.

[Voyeur]

I teach at a public/private high school ('private' high schools are still essentially public here). Hours are a bit more than some unis, but pay is higher too.

Jobs that seem alike are not necessarily alike. Try to talk to a current teacher and ask what his schedule and responsibilities are. While current teachers can't really be relied upon to give you any kind of objective, qualitative evaluation of a job and the working conditions, they usually can provide reliable info. about the actual hours, schedule, and responsibilities.

Sixteen classes a week at one uni can end up requiring about eighteen total hours of work. At another, this could take thirty. Whether the classes are grouped together nicely, how many times you teach the same lesson, whether they have a textbook or you must provide original materials for each class, and more can all make the difference between a job that gives you lots of time for side income and one that feels a lot like full time employment.

[The_Big_White_Elephant]

[Voyeur]

I taught in Korea for 8 years, but this is my first year in China. When I applied for work last summer, most of my offers came from unis and language academies. This is not like Korea, and public schools typically do not have a foreign English teacher. So for starters, there are probably a lot more Uni and language school jobs.

Secondly, when public schools do have a requirement for a foreign teacher it is often because they have some kind of special program going on. In my case, it is an international program teaching SAT and TOEFL, preparing students for US university. Or they may be bridge programs. Often these schools have heavier requirements with respect to experience or qualifications. Many teach content in English and require a teaching license--they pay a lot less than a real International school in many cases, but are less demanding and competitive.

I'm guessing here, but the combination of less jobs and more demanding requirements is probably why you hear a lot less about them. Also, even for the more ESL-oriented positions, you still have to teach kids. I like teaching kids, but it drains you emotionally a lot more than teaching high schoolers or uni students. You always have to be 'up', and classroom management takes it out of you. This makes it harder to stack private lessons into your schedule as you are just more tired. I imagine others have more info. on this.

Still, my job at an elite high school international program is very good. I make 11k for 15 40 min classes, and I spend about 20-22 hours a week 'all in' including marking and prepping and forced downtime at the school. So some of these jobs can be fantastic. And my kids behave very well--class is a joy to teach.

[naturegirl321]

Dealing with parents would be a massive downside for me

[The_Big_White_Elephant]