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ZennoSaji
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 87
Location: Mito, Ibaraki
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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Cool Teacher wrote: |
Here's the divoce rates around the world. The West is very high even though we think in the West that we only marry those ones we love and want to stay with forever.  |
Hey, I never said anything about the whim of love making anyone stay together forever or not have to fight over property during the eventual split-up.  I just pointed out the change in motivation behind marriage back home: "But I love him/her!" |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| Dunno much about Japanese mores. But marriage the world over is and always has been a legal contract concerning property rights. Even in the decadent West where romantic notions may seem to obscure this basic unchanging truth. For those who wish to cling to some recently idealistic notion of marriage at home, take a look at divorce proceedings to see just how tied into property rights it really all is. There isn't much else to it in fact... |
+1
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| Dunno much about Japanese mores. But marriage the world over is and always has been a legal contract concerning property rights. Even in the decadent West where romantic notions may seem to obscure this basic unchanging truth. For those who wish to cling to some recently idealistic notion of marriage at home, take a look at divorce proceedings to see just how tied into property rights it really all is. There isn't much else to it in fact... |
Yes, but isn't infidelity cited in such proceedings, at least in areas that aren't covered by "no fault" laws regarding divorce? I wonder how this plays out in Japanese divorces? |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Maitoshi wrote: |
| Yes, but isn't infidelity cited in such proceedings, at least in areas that aren't covered by "no fault" laws regarding divorce? I wonder how this plays out in Japanese divorces? |
Not in the slightest seeing as "no fault" is a US legal concept and doesn't feature in the Japanese legal system?
Divorce is, like marriage, a very straight forward process in Japan. You go to the town hall, file the paperwork. If it's contested it goes to a hearing and is decided, usually within ~3 weeks of all parties filing the required paperwork. If it is not contested it can be processed on the spot. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| Maitoshi wrote: |
| Yes, but isn't infidelity cited in such proceedings, at least in areas that aren't covered by "no fault" laws regarding divorce? I wonder how this plays out in Japanese divorces? |
Not in the slightest seeing as "no fault" is a US legal concept and doesn't feature in the Japanese legal system?
Divorce is, like marriage, a very straight forward process in Japan. You go to the town hall, file the paperwork. If it's contested it goes to a hearing and is decided, usually within ~3 weeks of all parties filing the required paperwork. If it is not contested it can be processed on the spot. |
Perhaps my post wasn't clear. I was wondering how infidelity plays a role in Japanese divorce proceedings. So even when divorce is contested, infidelity doesn't play a role in the divorce proceedings? How very mature and enlightened of them. |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh, I see now. I expect, like any place in the world, you'll get variations simply based on the individuals. But, if I were to generalize particularly grossly (based on a whole 4-5 divorces in Japan where I've known the details) I'd say that if the respective parties were conducting the infidelity "according to the rules" then it won't come up at all. If they weren't then it might be mentioned, but only from a perspective of "I want X amount in support because they were extra bad and did X, Y, Z." The fact of infidelity itself doesn't, as I understand it, enter into the proceeding: if either party wants to divorce, then they can. There's no legal requirement for a reason. Divorce, like marriage, is an administrative procedure in Japan, not a legal procedure. The baggage (emotional, social, religious, personal) is just that: baggage. |
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teacheratlarge
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 192
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Infidelity can play a role in deciding if compensation is demanded from the third party. In other words, if you decide to have an affair with a married woman, if her husband gets wind of it and decides to divorce her, he may name you the lover as a causative agent and sue you for breaking up his marriage. So in other words, be careful who knows about it if you want to be a third wheel at the marriage table. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| teacheratlarge wrote: |
| Infidelity can play a role in deciding if compensation is demanded from the third party. In other words, if you decide to have an affair with a married woman, if her husband gets wind of it and decides to divorce her, he may name you the lover as a causative agent and sue you for breaking up his marriage. So in other words, be careful who knows about it if you want to be a third wheel at the marriage table. |
That's sure to take some of the fun out of it! Does this also hold true if her husband is cheating on her? If so, this keeps the whole revenge sex angle open, at least 😉 |
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teacheratlarge
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 192
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, it works both ways and there have been a few big settlements. It's a reason to be aware of your surroundings on the 'marriage playground'. |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Maitoshi wrote: |
| That's sure to take some of the fun out of it! Does this also hold true if her husband is cheating on her? If so, this keeps the whole revenge sex angle open, at least 😉 |
As someone else said, it works both ways. The other thing to remember is that the "sue the third party" part is a separate civil lawsuit. It's not part of the divorce. The fun part about Japanese law is that both the former marriage partners can individually sue the third party for breaking up the marriage.  Japanese law is, sometimes, wonderfully even handed and practical. Not often, but sometimes. |
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The Fifth Column
Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 331
Location: His habitude with lexical items protrudes not unlike a damaged pollex!!!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:45 am Post subject: |
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Twenty-one mutually-devoted years and raising a son...
jes' sayin'... |
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timothypfox
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Happy for you Fifth Column. But, it doesn't take lack of "devotion" to a marriage for it to sour. It also does not take infidelity for a marriage to sour. What if your partner cheated on you and you were devoted/faithful? What then? What if neither of you cheated, and one of you fell completely out of love with the other person? What then?
Just saying... |
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The Fifth Column
Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 331
Location: His habitude with lexical items protrudes not unlike a damaged pollex!!!
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| timothypfox wrote: |
Happy for you Fifth Column. But, it doesn't take lack of "devotion" to a marriage for it to sour. It also does not take infidelity for a marriage to sour. What if your partner cheated on you and you were devoted/faithful? What then? What if neither of you cheated, and one of you fell completely out of love with the other person? What then?
Just saying... |
I hear you...and your bitterness is palpable. You were very open with your story and your union was regrettable.
I think that our fortune stems from the fact that we found each other in our early 30's AFTER we had MUTUALLY sown our oats and were looking for something settled and permanent (I note that I was merely in my 3rd year of my 20-year self-exile...she, surprisingly, took to living in Saudi Arabia & the UAE like a duck to water). She was Ichibatsu and was a "newbie".
Fortunately, for us, all of your "What if"s don't factor into our relationship because of three distinct and seemingly implausible factors:
1.) I keep her interested in me and, by extension, our union, which is as strong as ever.
2.) I chose her, specifically, to ask because she is "old school" where, even "IF" we somehow fell out of love, we would stay together for "the boy"...because once you procreate, it's NOT about "you" anymore.
3.) We have the intelligence and mutual respect to give each other our respective spaces. Plus, our sassuru functions well.
"Jes' saying" sassed or mocked no one on this thread. Attempting to throw it back merely diminishes your response and provides an insight of how YOU respond...
...leading to clues of why what happened to you happened. |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The Fifth Column wrote: |
..leading to clues of why what happened to you happened. |
And now you are definitely throwing it back as an insult/gloat. No need for it. If you read intent in what they wrote then that's on you. :? |
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The Fifth Column
Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 331
Location: His habitude with lexical items protrudes not unlike a damaged pollex!!!
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| The Fifth Column wrote: |
..leading to clues of why what happened to you happened. |
And now you are definitely throwing it back as an insult/gloat. No need for it. If you read intent in what they wrote then that's on you.  |
And that's all that you got from my post...how very focused of you. |
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