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Iosif
Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| thebroformerlyknownaschou wrote: |
| Iosif wrote: |
| ..... I am actually interested in what the true requirements are.... |
salut tipule!
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Salut....you did not fill my heart with optimism that is for sure,but at least you were honest 
| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
This guy's English is no worse than some of the regular native speakers that post on here, people who wouldn't have a hope in hell of being an English teacher were it not for them holding the right passport.
Plenty of schools that will accept non-native speakers, just need to cast a wide net to find them. Start applying and see what happens. |
Thanks for the advice,and thanks everyone for the honest answers...what can I say,I will keep trying,maybe something good or decent will come along. I do not dream at a big salary from the start,maybe after 1 or 2 years,after I get the hang of it,I can decide what to do further. The thing is to just start from somewhere,after that I shall see what comes next. I would prefer this to going back to the business world,believe it or not,I find it less stressful than managing a small business,especially in the bureaucratic system of Romania.
| buffalobill12323 wrote: |
A second rate job in a second rate city is possible - but does anyone really aspire to that? For a decent job, its a sad but true fact that
his English is not bad, but not native. Thats what Chinese employers want most of all - then the govt. has its stipulations. For these reasons he will never find a worthwhile job.
My original advice, though apparently unwelcome, was well meant - he would struggle to get a decent job here. That was my honest opinion and it stands. If he wants to get all bitch assed defensive about it - then WTF ask for advice in the first place.
Now I looked at China
If this will work out,or I shall scream in pain and frustration
Will your erudite vocabulary be needed
I can't say that my English is that bad,- - - - -no, it is not. It's just not good enough
have seen teachers in China and especially in the Arab countries you would not believe. People from Pakistan with almost no experience,a level of English that would not even qualify for a 5 on the IELTS general score,yet they are in Saudi Arabia,earning between 2500-3500 USD.
Don't believe you
I have seen video demos on youtube of so called teachers who can barely speak 2-3 words,non natives,yet they have almost 10K RMB
Don't believe you |
My dear lad,you are what we would call a forum troll. I did not bitch about anything,I asked for a few tips,thoughts and ideas about it all,or who knows,maybe asking for help and actually trying something is called bitching by your standards.
Now if you wish to start a flame wars about what you believe or about what I bitch or don't bitch about,good luck with that,I really have other things to do with my life so I think I shall be ignoring you from now on. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Valium! Valium! Keep your shirts on!
I've met several non-native English speakers in China: a Cameroonian whose Creole was so thick that she was often unintelligible, a German whose grasp of standard English vocabulary was non-existent; an Egyptian who spoke like he had a mouth full of mashed potatoes; a white South Afrikaner who had no college and whose accent rendered her nearly unintelligible.
Getting a job is just a matter of sending out enough resumes to fourth and fifth tier colleges, not universities. Lower-tier two-year colleges, generally, have difficulty retaining teachers because the students' English is really bad. |
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haleynicole14
Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 178
Location: US
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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OP, I can't offer much insight into your career options, but one of the easiest, quickest changes you can make to seem like a more natural English writer is to put a space after punctuation (periods, commas, etc.). ETA: Actually, after rereading, your English is quite good, and I think changing just the spaces after punctuation would help a lot! Punctuation makes a huge difference.
Good luck. Also, perhaps you would have better luck looking at kindergartens or jobs with young kids, where you would be teaching more elementary English skills? |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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A 7.5 may not seem great to some of you, but it is actually above the average for native English speakers, and is certainly good enough to be a good English teacher (as long as he is a good teacher of course).
It's possible that it's becoming more difficult for people who aren't native speakers to get jobs, but at my Uni we don't seem to have any problems with it yet.
Nonetheless, it's a problem. I know that your English is good enough, but the folk who consider your applications (whose English will probably be as good as yours at best) won't know. I'm sure you can understand the assumption, though it's often false, that native speakers have a very good standard of English.
But there's always problems, and maybe you have strengths that others don't have. You might not be able to be too fussy about where you teach (Beijing and Shanghai may be out, or more difficult) but it's definitely possible.
Just remember to keep studying English. We all have to do it. I regularly pick up new American English. You do make a lot of mistakes with collocations and get idioms slightly wrong. It irritates me when English teachers make mistakes and teach wrong things, but China needs all the good teachers it can get. So, if you want to work in this field, don't assume you've arrived. Continue to work hard to improve your English. I just don't feel you need to exclude yourself from teaching while you're perfecting your English. |
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buffalobill12323
Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 115
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
A 7.5 may not seem great to some of you, but it is actually above the average for native English speakers,
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I would like the see the evidence to back that statement up.
It MIGHT be true that, if you took a selection of folks of the poorer sections Belfast, Glasgow, Newcastle Baltimore (I watch 'the Wire'!!!), Redneck - Kentucky, Johannesburg or any other place with thick accents and lots of indecipherable slang and told them nothing about the test, and allowed no preparation time they probably would come in under 7.5, but, any native with decent education and modest prep should do a lot better - and, this is the KEY point, if such a person can't exceed 7.5 they shouldn't be a teacher.
A non-native who can do 7.5 certainly has many good options around the world, China ain't one of them.
If you had absolute freedom to choose, would you want such a 'meh, not bad' type teaching your kids?
Do you choose the restaurant with the 1 star chef or the 5 star?
The surgeon with 10 years experience or the surgeon with none?
These analogies may seem trite, until you consider the importance Chinese parents place on their kids education, they really don't want second best. So yeah, the OP might be able to sneak in the back door of some sorry-assed training centre or dodgy kindy, but forget ever landing a decent job |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| buffalobill12323 wrote: |
| vikeologist wrote: |
A 7.5 may not seem great to some of you, but it is actually above the average for native English speakers,
. |
I would like the see the evidence to back that statement up.
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It looks as though the British Council have removed the link which gave average score by first language. (If I remember correctly English was 7.1 for academic and 7.3 for General. Embarrassingly German speakers averaged out at 7.2 for academic, above English speakers anyway.)
Oh, found the average scores. http://www.ielts.org/researchers/analysis-of-test-data/test-taker-performance-2012.aspx
Here's some raw data
http://www.ielts.org/researchers/analysis_of_test_data/percentile_ranks_2012.aspx
Of course there's a reason for this. Lots of English speakers (who have to do the test in order to emigrate for example) probably don't prepare for the test, and nobody would get a decent score without preparation.
I think you'd be surprised though how few people would get a 9, at least for Speaking and Writing.
I appreciate you're judging the Op by his writing, and ripping it apart, (as inded did I), but a 7.5 is ok.
I actually do agree that English teachers should be better than a 7.5, but on the other hand here's a lot of things that go into being a worthwhile ESL teacher in China, and the gap between a 7.5 and a 9 is only one of them.
I'd guess that most of the English teachers at my Uni (I mean the Chinese ones) are about 6s, at least for speaking. (I've never done a test with them, and am pulling that figure out of my arse), but I feel certain that on average they are definitely well short of 7.5, so the OP's English ability, not great, but in the context of language teaching in China, not necessarily a disqualification. |
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buffalobill12323
Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 115
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
| buffalobill12323 wrote: |
| vikeologist wrote: |
A 7.5 may not seem great to some of you, but it is actually above the average for native English speakers,
. |
I would like the see the evidence to back that statement up.
|
It looks as though the British Council have removed the link which gave average score by first language. (If I remember correctly English was 7.1 for academic and 7.3 for General. Embarrassingly German speakers averaged out at 7.2 for academic, above English speakers anyway.)
Here's some raw data
http://www.ielts.org/researchers/analysis_of_test_data/percentile_ranks_2012.aspx
Of course there's a reason for this. Lots of English speakers (who have to do the test in order to emigrate for example) probably don't prepare for the test, and nobody would get a decent score without preparation.
I think you'd be surprised though how few people would get a 9, at least for Speaking and Writing.
I appreciate you're judging the Op by his writing, and ripping it apart, (as inded did I), but a 7.5 is ok.
I actually do agree that English teachers should be better than a 7.5, but on the other hand here's a lot of things that go into being a worthwhile ESL teacher in China, and the gap between a 7.5 and a 9 is only one of them.
I'd guess that most of the English teachers at my Uni (I mean the Chinese ones) are about 5s or 6s, at least for speaking. (I've never done a test with them, and am pulling that figure out of my arse), but I feel certain that on average they are definitely well short of 7.5, so the OP's English ability, not great, but in the context of language teaching in China, not necessarily a disqualification. |
A friend of mine here, now an IELTS examiner in China, was an examiner in Australia - she had a lot of Irish lads there recently - they speak to her as they would on the mean street of Dublin and Limerick and their score suffers accordingly. That scenario is very different from a native speaker of Hindi, Arabic, or, let's say for arguments sake, Romanian, giving it their best shot, with lots of prep and practice, still getting 7.5.
My best mate back home is a brickie, and he would struggle to get 7.5, but he never has a problem being understood or understanding, he can argue away, or explain away any point of contention. He is a silver tongued devil who can melt the girls hearts with his words - but he is not an IELTS candidate. He doesn't want to be a teacher, ergo his English is perfect for his Chosen path in life.
The OP's English is simply not perfect, or anywhere near, for the proposed path mooted in this thread
I think you'd be surprised though how few people would get a 9, at least for Speaking and Writing.
I wouldn't be the least surprised, I imagine the numbers are very low, and those getting a 9 average would be minuscule. I think an 8.5 average should be allowed to teach anywhere, but not a 7.5 |
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thebroformerlyknownaschou
Joined: 09 May 2014
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:29 am Post subject: Re: Various questions about teaching in China |
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boys (and girls?), you're so busy arguing with each another, you've lost
the point of the thread. OP is not a native speaker, but wants to teach
engrish here in our china. OP wants a good pay.
| Iosif wrote: |
| I am not a native,how much will that affect my chances of employment and a good pay? |
what are the requirements (okay, suggestions) to obtain a work visa and
expert certificate for the teaching of the engrish? without meeting the
main requirement...native speaker (okay, holder of native speaker passport),
how are OP's options limited?
in which provinces, or in which cities, can OP obtain a valid work permit?
xinjiang? inner mongolia?
will OP be able to teach in universities? colleges? middle schools? or just
at shady mills?
| Iosif wrote: |
| People in my country are mostly discouraged by a completely useless,wasteful and bureaucratic system,education is no exception. |
sorry, my mistake, seems OP is already in our china! |
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buffalobill12323
Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 115
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:35 am Post subject: Re: Various questions about teaching in China |
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| thebroformerlyknownaschou wrote: |
boys (and girls?), you're so busy arguing with each another, you've lost
the point of the thread. OP is not a native speaker, but wants to teach
engrish here in our china. OP wants a good pay.
| Iosif wrote: |
| I am not a native,how much will that affect my chances of employment and a good pay? |
what are the requirements (okay, suggestions) to obtain a work visa and
expert certificate for the teaching of the engrish? without meeting the
main requirement...native speaker (okay, holder of native speaker passport),
how are OP's options limited?
in which provinces, or in which cities, can OP obtain a valid work permit?
xinjiang? inner mongolia?
will OP be able to teach in universities? colleges? middle schools? or just
at shady mills?
| Iosif wrote: |
| People in my country are mostly discouraged by a completely useless,wasteful and bureaucratic system,education is no exception. |
sorry, my mistake, seems OP is already in our china! |
His questions have been answered - some answers he didn't like - now the thread has developed a sub-theme, it happens, I am aware that some people don't appreciate such deviations....whatchya gonna do.... |
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