Job Discussion Forums

[AussieGus]

G'day everyone.

I'm a 38 year old Australian with a background of ESL teaching in Asia, mostly South Korea but also Vietnam and Laos. I have a BA with a major in anthropology and a TESOL. I taught in Asia from 2001 after graduating until 2009 when I returned to Australia and unexpectedly met my Chinese wife (I wouldn't be here otherwise). She was studying nursing at the time, has a well paying job now, thinks Australia is the land of milk and honey and wants to stay here. I don't. Life in Australia has deepened my depression which, I suspect, is the case for many western ESL teachers who return home. Despite having a wonderful, pristine environment, advanced infrastructure and a medical and education system which is the envy of the world, I find living in Australia deflating, boring, bland, one dimensional and demeaning. I'm reasonably well educated, well spoken and attractive (blonde hair and blue eyes) but Australia doesn't appreciate my unique qualities and I've found life here difficult to say the least. That may sound narcissistic but its reality. I'm not maximizing myself here and the knowledge, cultural awareness and life experience I gained in Korea is going to waste. I'm currently working at an Aged Care facility as a carer for $17 per hour, washing the behinds of old people with dementia which is the only work I can get in Australia. Its an important job but one I'd rather not do! Teaching or tutoring is not an option in an English speaking, elitist and highly competitive country like Australia where they'd rather keep people on welfare than risk a lowering of job standards. I don't have the requisite Dip Ed nor am I prepared to return to uni at my age. Yes, I'm bitter about Australia. If I was an uneducated Chinese or Indian I'd have a far better chance of procuring meaningful work here as they look after their own, unlike Anglo Australians.

Anyway the bottom line is I have few opportunities down under and prefer the exotic life in Asia than the traditional one given my interest in Asian culture. However am I being selfish in relocating my pregnant wife and son (aged 2 years) to China where my qualifications, teaching experience and ethnicity will (hopefully) hold me in good stead? I'm aware that China is a developing country and also all that implies. I was thinking of a coastal city like Dalian where the pollution isn't too bad (and which shares some similarities with my hometown Melbourne) to make a new start with my family. Or should I stay put and keep working as a carer in a nursing home and sacrifice myself for my family? Any advice would be much appreciated. My wife thinks western ESL teachers in China are 'white trash' so I intend to prove her wrong. Its a difficult decision. We live comfortably in Australia and I love my family but I'm not happy. I prefer the life in Asia.

[Javelin of Radiance]

G'day sir. here are some related threads for you to have a look at. This topic seems to come up from time to time so you'll probably get a lot of repeat answers on your thread. Some of these go back to '09-'10 but lots of the info contained therein will still hold true.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=82403&highlight=family

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=81037&highlight=family

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=76613&highlight=family

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=101986&highlight=family

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=104780&highlight=family

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=75080&highlight=family

Does your wife have any interest in moving here? Getting her to agree seems to be your first hurdle. If she's ok with it you need to start doing some serious planning, where to go, job search, how much income will you need, find a half decent place for your kids to start growing up, etc. If your wife is pregnant right now then I assume this is a plan for next year or later? Some posters like mambawamba, who I believe arrived in China with a family, can likely give you better advice than the restofus. Or some of the people who started a family after arriving here. In the end you wouldn't be the first person to make this kind of move, and hopefully you find out what you need and can make an informed decision. Good luck.

[AussieGus]

Thanks mate. I appreciate that. I'll have a look at the archives. I was aware that I might not be the first person who has faced this dilemma!

After much convincing my wife is prepared to give it a go, under duress. She has Australian permanent residency now so she's aware that if things go pear shaped we can always come home to Australia. However she doesn't see the logic in going back to a country that her parents sacrificed everything to get her out of. The fact that I can't reach my potential in Australia or make much money has finally swayed her. She's sick of seeing me miserable.

My interest and experience revolves around teaching adults, mostly Uni students and businessmen at hogwans in Korea. I really enjoyed it as I learned as much from them as they did from me. I have a certain affinity with cultures, social systems, east v west, cultural relativity, comparing worldviews and dissecting them which goes with being a foreign ESL teacher. I have also taught children of all ages and would be prepared to do so again as a means to an end.

What would be an ideal part of China to settle in given my circumstances and qualifications? I'm thinking a 2nd tier city like Dalian. Baoding, in Hebei, where my wife is from is a dump and I wouldn't subject my kids to that. I've spent time there though haven't lived there.

Would I be better off saving up enough money to move to China with the family, setting up a home and then start to look for work? Is there any alternative?

Yep, the plan is to go next year as my wife is due to give birth in July. My eldest would then be nearly three and the baby about 8+ months.

[thatsforsure]

Hey Gus. You and I have a lot of similarities, so I can see where you're coming from. I'm happy to discuss more over PM if you like.

You won't want to hear this, but I don't think you should go to China. Believe me when I say I feel the same boredom and frustration in my own western country. But it's really hard for a westerner to make a permanent life in China. Visas and jobs don't lend themselves to stability, and stability is what your kids will need.

I'm not going to go into every issue, but some of the main ones are:

-In China, your life can be uprooted at any moment, depending on government regulations and how they're applied. For example, the place where you build a life could decide to enforce the "five-year-rule" and you could be kicked right out.
-I can't think of any westerner who's let their kids go all the way through the Chinese school system through high school graduation. Middle school is usually the upper limit. The problem is that the system focuses intensely on preparing for the GaoKao, and that's a massive wasted effort for foreign kids. But international schools are prohibitively expensive for a teacher.
-Getting permanent residence is going to be tough, and without it, when you decide to retire, it's going to be hard to stay in China.
-No situation you create in China -- even if you start earning $20 million a year -- can ever compare to the health care system you have in Australia.
-As a foreigner, you have no safety net whatsoever if you should become sick or disabled.
-I think you're going to end up with a resentful wife. That does not bode well.

In my view, most of your problem results from your job situation. I'd focus on changing that. I would reconsider your opposition to going back to school. You might not need to do a full degree, but I would think that some kind of retraining program, certificate, etc. could get you into a career you'd enjoy more. The stimulation of doing the program might also bring you a little bit of the spark you're longing for in life.

[AussieGus]

Thanks for the response.

I agree with the pitfalls of a long term move to China and that's why we'll have to return to Australia when my eldest child is about 6-7 which gives us 4-5 years. That's all I'm asking my wife for, four years to live somewhere where I can have a meaningful life. I'm aware that it would be ludicrous to stay longer than that. The problem will be that the same problems I have in Australia now will return in intensified form when I return and I'll be four years older. Still, that respite would give me a huge lift and other opportunities might come out of it. Your right about my wife not being happy, all her friends have desperately fought to stay in Australia and now her silly laowai husband wants to take her back to hell. What is it with the Chinese in Australia. WHAT'S SO GOOD ABOUT AUSTRALIA? Life here is banal, sanitised and one dimensional, everything is regulated, the cost of living is sky high and decent jobs are tough to get without impeccable qualifications and experience in the industry. All this for a good medical system and fresh air?

Even if I did return to study and completed a tangible degree there's no guarantee I'd get a decent job here even then. Not in my 40's, Australia is so ageist. Its also rife with drugs here which I'm guessing won't be the case in China and Australia has a brutal drinking culture. Its difficult for a young man to go out these days without being targeted by drunken, steroid crazed thugs. There are advantages in taking your kids to China as well.

Would moving to China for just 4-5 years with a view to saving money and then returning home be more feasible?

Would I be able to find a satisfying job there teaching adults quickly? I wouldn't mind a private institute or a university. Never worked in China before.

Where would you guys go in my situation? As I said I was thinking Dalian but are there any other options? Looking for a relatively wholesome place with open spaces and not too much pollution (somewhere atleast tolerable for a family with small kids and western amenities).

Thanks in advance for any more replies. I need some advice![/b]

[thatsforsure]

Gus,

There's a lot in your post. I'm not going to tell you it's wrong, because it's mostly subjective and much of it applies to the USA, too.

But I would add a few lines in answer to your question:

[fpshangzhou]

Hello,
I thought I would chime in since I have a family here and some of the reasons mentioned for working abroad ring home to me as well. We just had a baby here in Hangzhou and are finding it very expensive and difficult to raise her comfortably. Here are a few challenges we have been faced with to date:

Baby food is 3 times the price back home (must buy int'l brand because China has history of health risks with baby formula)

Daycare is extremely expensive for an esl teacher salary and double the cost of daycare in a western country. Not to mention, language barriers for communicating (not in your wife's case).

As noted above, the healthcare system in China is cheaper, but known for unsanitary conditions, and barbaric & archaic medical system. Although very expensive, we opt for western clinics/hospitals for baby medical needs.

Air quality is terrible all around. We live in one of the cleaner cities, but the air quality is still questionable, especially for babies & children.

I have had an unbelievable experience in China, but due the stated reasons and more, we've dec