Job Discussion Forums

[Yasuke]

I've seen many stories about Saidi students being hard to control and not very interested in studying.

But, I wonder. What are students supposed to be learning in the vocational schools, in the PYP's, and at the Universities? Are students capable, but uninterested? Is the material too difficult for the general level?

I'm curious only because, I've seen teachers mention being expected to teach canonical literature that would indicate an expectation of students to have a fairly good grasp of the English language before they start. However, I see many people speaking of the socioeconomic background of many of these students that contribute to poor performance (vocational school and PYP's), and the idea of just being in a course to get the qualification(Universities) that would suggest that these are the main causes.

If anyone could explain what the general levels of students they have, how the curriculum suits their student population, if there is even a set curriculum, and what the reality of life in the Saudi classroom is like, I would really appreciate it.

I have a good sense of students the negatives, but I'm curious as to your opinions of the underlying reason, if that's possible.

Thanks.

[nomad soul]

If you're referring to posts within this forum, make that the opinions of a few people and not many. Additionally, there's no one-size-fits-all curriculum being used throughout Saudi Arabia just as there's no one type of student or teaching situation.

[scot47]

"Canonical Literature" ??????????? Not many posters here are teaching English Literature in KSA.

[Yasuke]

Fair enough. Thanks!

[rollingk]

Before university, most Saudi students were in classrooms of more than 30 students, sometimes up to 50, with often poorly trained teachers who often come from underdeveloped counties. These often poor teachers are badly paid and very seldom respected by Saudi parents or students, who use intimidation and bribery as commonplace strategies for grades. (Some will make the case that we are also bribed, as many positions in KSA involve strategies to pass students without any learning having taken place.)

Very high absenteeism among both students and teachers has been endemic through most of these students' school careers. Saying Saudi students haven't been exposed to an academic culture before university is perhaps being overly kind.

Also, methods used in classroom instruction have involved mostly only memorization of focused material for tests, and even this was poorly done when compared to east asian countries. There has been little or no emphasis on the simplest of progressive learning strategies and skills, like substitution or generalization, both necessary for abstract reasoning and language learning.

Most of their previous school experience has been debilitating.

For those who have stellar Saudi students with whom you are doing groundbreaking work, the above observations are generalizations and so have nothing to do with you.

I'll stop here, and not go into family life, sense of entitlement, etc.., which are also reasons for poor student quality in Saudi Arabia.

[Rostom]

[Yasuke]

[Yasuke]

@Rostom

Thanks for the insight.

[rollingk]

You should be able to find out early on those students who will give something to learning and those who will not. Concentrate on the former, and only pay enough attention to the latter for form's sake. If there is resistance to learning in tertiary education there isn't much you can do, except to conscientiously tow the line. Most universities in KSA will have systems in place which will pass recalcitrants anyway.

You'll want to create a dynamic of sorts with the few real students relative to exploiting their influence to help control the rest of the class. Keeping them with you through making the material accessible and relevant is crucial. Sometimes this will mean dumbing it down a bit, but it'll be worth it to have those few students who focus enough to make your work count for more than counting money. There are usually a few of these students in every class, thank god.

In KSA discretion and common sense on issues concerning attendance and classroom management is crucial. University administrations here often say what they think they're supposed to say, and put policies in place in the same fashion, but seldom actually adhere to any of them. In most cases you'll be needing to make them and the students right, while at the same time appear to be upholding standards that no one upholds.

[Yasuke]

[cmp45]

[Yasuke]

[cmp45]

I did say my 2 cents worth....the rest goes in my book you can buy on Amazon for 99 cents. Maybe someone else may offer to elaborate or pontificate...

[eslteacher2014]

I have only taught in a vocational setting in KSA, so I can't comment on other places.

Where I work, sadly i see myself as a babysitter rather than a teacher. I would like to think its different in a university setting? Or maybe different in a different GCC country?

[Yasuke]