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SunShan
Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 107
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 Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:05 am Post subject: Career advice |
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I'm looking for advice on my situation:
33-year-old British male
BA English and Linguistics degree
CELTA
Less than a year's teaching experience
It's taken me over four years to achieve the above qualifications as I know Asia is where I want to spend the majority/all of my life. The thought of staying in England any longer is really depressing! My natural thoughts are to just work in many countries and not come back.
However, I have an opportunity to get my teacher's licence/PGCE/QTS in England, which means staying, I'm guessing, maybe three more years - one to get qualified, another two for experience. I'm thinking that career-wise this could be good as I can work in international schools/better paid places etc. Whereas staying on the TEFL path, although very enjoyable, could cause me problems if I get married & start a family, not save money for retirement etc.
Is the three-year sacrifice worth it given that I really just want to stay abroad? Maybe I could come back in a few years to do the PGCE.
If I get my teacher's licence, would I be more employable abroad doing primary (5-11 year-olds) teaching a wide subject curriculum, or secondary (12-16) teaching my BA subjects?
I've thought about doing a Master's and DELTA instead, but with my lack of experience and current finances, they're some way off. At the moment in England, I can get £9,000 wages for my PGCE year, which is more than the usual £6,000 (payment difference between graduating with a 1st Class and a 2.1 or below degree). This money would make the year more financially bearable, and may even change for the worse in the future.
In a nutshell, it's taken me over four years to get to the point where I can finally go. I was in my '20s when I started this journey, now in my '30s it's kind of hit me that I should be a bit more responsible for the rest of my life (though I hate to think so conservatively).
The countries I see myself in are: Japan, China, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia. I don't want to come back to the UK.
Any advice much appreciated. Especially from those who have been in a similar situation, wished they could go back and get a certain qualification... Or just went out there and TEFLed without a care in the world. |
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The Voice Of Reason
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by The Voice Of Reason on Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| The Voice Of Reason wrote: |
SunShan,
You're itchy to get on that plane and head out, I hear ya. The PGCE is a valuable qualification, as I'm sure you know. You can certainly approach international schools with that (and your other qualifications under your belt). In my, humble, opinion the PGCE can be much better for you than a DELTA and/or a masters, it shows you can teach, and teach a decent subject. If you come over here without it you'll be earning much less in a language mill or uni job rather than a sweet international school gig. Also, of course, with the PGCE, if and when you return to blighty you can get a teaching job there.
I have several years TEFL experience, a useless degree, a TEFL cert, a tedious dead end job here (I have a salesman's smile) and very few prospects if and when I return to the UK. Get your PGCE done fella, come over here and enjoy it, knowing you have alternatives to singing heads, shoulders, knees and toes for erm, forever.
Best wishes. |
Seconded.
Do it now. Get it done. Plan your exit strategy. Have PGCE in hand. Depart. Never look back!
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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SunShan
Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| The Voice Of Reason wrote: |
You're itchy to get on that plane and head out, I hear ya.
Best wishes. |
You've got it in one! I've a friend working for a great private English school in Fujian. I've got an interview lined up and it looks as though I can be there ASAP. So tempting! Plus I can improve my Mandarin (pre-intermediate at the moment). But I foresee that coming back will be much harder if not impossible. Thanks for your voice of reason! |
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SunShan
Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="fat_chris"]
| The Voice Of Reason wrote: |
Seconded.
Do it now. Get it done. Plan your exit strategy. Have PGCE in hand. Depart. Never look back!
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
fat_chris, you're always posting sound advice on here. Just wondering if you have a PGCE, and if so, is it primary or secondary? Feel free to PM if you prefer not state publicly. I'm leaning towards doing secondary but it seems a like narrowing my options to schools looking (or not as the case may be) specifically for an English Literature/Language teacher, rather than a primary teacher. |
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golsa
Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Career advice |
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| SunShan wrote: |
| However, I have an opportunity to get my teacher's licence/PGCE/QTS in England, which means staying, I'm guessing, maybe three more years - one to get qualified, another two for experience. I'm thinking that career-wise this could be good as I can work in international schools/better paid places etc. Whereas staying on the TEFL path, although very enjoyable, could cause me problems if I get married & start a family, not save money for retirement etc. |
You certainly should get your PGCE and QTS while you have the opportunity. Many of us never had that opportunity and regret it.
| SunShan wrote: |
| I've thought about doing a Master's and DELTA instead, but with my lack of experience and current finances, they're some way off. At the moment in England, I can get £9,000 wages for my PGCE year, which is more than the usual £6,000 (payment difference between graduating with a 1st Class and a 2.1 or below degree). This money would make the year more financially bearable, and may even change for the worse in the future. |
You need 3 years experience full time experience at a good language school (read: British Council, International House, London School of English, etc) before you'll be able to succeed at DELTA. Full stop.
| SunShan wrote: |
| The countries I see myself in are: Japan, China, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia. I don't want to come back to the UK. |
Japan and China are dead end destinations. I can't comment on Malaysia and Indonesia, but know that your current qualifications are enough to get your foot in the door there. I think you should aim higher and get the PGCE and QTS and take up teaching a subject full time at an international school which offers pay and benefits much better than we EFL teachers can get.
| SunShan wrote: |
| Any advice much appreciated. Especially from those who have been in a similar situation, wished they could go back and get a certain qualification... Or just went out there and TEFLed without a care in the world. |
I started out as a modern foreign language for secondary school major, but changed to a different major. I always wanted to teach, but preferred adults, so I changed to a more academic field and hoped to become a professor. Then the global economic crisis hit and grant funding for research and graduate students plummeted and my chances of obtaining tenure track work after getting a Ph.D. + post doc dropped to 15%. I decided to go into EFL at first for adventure and then decided to make a career out of it. I currently work for one of the best EFL teaching organizations in the world, but it has been difficult getting here. My job treats me as a professional, but most others don't They say things like "Oh so you're still teaching English? Couldn't find anything else to do?" I've met 35 year old call center operators who don't even have a B.A./B.S. who look down on me for teaching English. Yep, these people work dead end jobs where they read something from a script before transferring the caller to a different phone line and think they're better than an EFL teacher.
I once asked a group of 20-ish Chinese students what they thought about what they thought about foreign non-native speakers teaching English. They laughed in unison and one of them commented "They couldn't get any other job!" Mind you, non-native speakers have at least gone through the process of learning English to a high degree of proficiency so they can teach. What do you think the students really thought of native speaker teachers?
The EFL industry is rife with people who can and will take advantage of you because you're a foreigner in a country where you have no rights and your embassy will do next to nothing to help a lowly EFL teacher. You'll be seen as someone who can easily be hired, fired, and replaced by the next knucklehead who wants to come to the country for adventure.
So that's the deal. I once face almost the same choice you do, but I decided to change my major away from one that would lead to a BE.d. + teacher's license (= PGCE + QTS in the UK) to something unrelated and ended up teaching anyway. I love teaching, but would have much better prospects if I had stuck to my original plan. |
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golsa
Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| SunShan wrote: |
Do it now. Get it done. Plan your exit strategy. Have PGCE in hand. Depart. Never look back! |
Unless I'm mistaken, he has a ME.d. + state teaching license in his home state in the US. |
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Guerciotti
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 842
Location: In a sleazy bar killing all the bad guys.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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A PGCSE is a no-brainer. Get it. You'll make 50% - 100% more money every year and you'll work at much better schools. Please, England ain't THAT bad!
And you could return to blighty with useful experience. That's not in your plans but you never know.
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SunShan
Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Guys, I posted this on multiple boards, which was a mistake. Please post onto Newbie forum thread 'advice on my career path', from now on.
Thanks for all your advice. |
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maxand
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| SunShan wrote: |
Guys, I posted this on multiple boards, which was a mistake. Please post onto Newbie forum thread 'advice on my career path', from now on.
Thanks for all your advice. |
how dare you ask for advice on a message board...how dare YOU!!!!  |
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KnockoutNed
Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Career advice |
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| golsa wrote: |
Japan and China are dead end destinations. |
My $4,500 monthly salary in China disagrees with you |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:16 am Post subject: Re: Career advice |
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| KnockoutNed wrote: |
| golsa wrote: |
Japan and China are dead end destinations. |
My $4,500 monthly salary in China disagrees with you |
I hear China is up and coming. I almost went, but it just wasn't in the cards. I'd like to go, but am a wuss and am staying put. Were it just me I would have left for China long, long ago, but I"ve got a kid. |
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SunShan
Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Career advice |
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| KnockoutNed wrote: |
My $4,500 monthly salary in China disagrees with you |
I agree, I know people doing well there, but for me it's not just about money. China is a fascinating place with a beautiful language, culture and people. A big thing for me is improving my Mandarin when I finally got out there. Perhaps other doors will open then, not just in the education field, but it's mainly a hobby for now. |
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El Macho
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:09 am Post subject: |
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It's worth it to get a higher qualification if you want to make a career of teaching.
Keep in mind that QTS and an MA + DELTA are for two distinct career paths.
QTS will set you on a career path towards teaching K-12 in either international schools or Chinese schools. Best case scenario, this means higher salaries, cushy expat package, and so forth. You also can use QTS for much higher salaries in CHinese programs designed to send Chinese high school students to university abroad. QTS also means not 'only' having to be an English teacher; you can be a subject teacher rather than 'just' a language teacher.
An MA + DELTA is preparing you to teach university. Best case scenario, this means a high salary at a joint-venture university, but these positions are relatively fewer in number than positions at international schools. Positions back home are also relatively fewer for those with an MA TESOL.
If you want to take a year off to teach in China and recharge your batteries, go for it! But you're right to be thinking long-term. The career trajectory is completely different between having QTS and teaching K-12 and not having QTS and trying to do the same. |
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mw182006
Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Just want to interrupt a bit, a QTS is equivalent to getting a teaching cert in the US versus the MA+DELTA combo? I'm going to give it another semester or two before I start thinking seriously about pursuing some real credentials, and I just want to make sure I'm tracking this conversation accurately. I think I'm picking up what you're all puttin' down... |
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