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Juice
Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 66
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rioux
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 880
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 Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Michelle Wang of China Wolf Job Recruiters sounds like a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Thanks for the info. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Sure, there are some scumbags out there. I'm always amazed that some people are willing to travel to the other side of the earth in search of a job or a school, or are very willing to accept the word of someone whom they don't know there, yet they wouldn't think of doing something similar in their own countries.
Worse, there are people who neither consider the possibility that they are being lied to, nor consider the possibility that there are questions that they should ask and their answers confirmed by a second source. Where would one turn if he is an American?
OMG! It's right here:
http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/visas/faq/
Yowza, Boss, here's the big picture:
http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/visas/
Sorry, no sympathy from me. If it happened to you in your own country, you could probably bear to shoulder the blame. But no, you chose to spin the wheel and come to China. Things couldn't be any worse, could they?
You found out that they can be worse. |
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Juice
Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:51 am Post subject: China Foreign Teachers: Do Not Believe Job Agents About Visa |
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Everything Mr. Powell says is absolutely true. But in our country recruiters are licensed and regulated and if they pulled this shit in the West they could be sued and prosecuted. This lack of ACCOUNTABILITY is the real problem. Chinese recruiters could rip off foreigners 24/7/365 and the Chinese government simply does not care.
http://scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=84192 |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: Re: China Foreign Teachers: Do Not Believe Job Agents About |
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| Juice wrote: |
Everything Mr. Powell says is absolutely true. But in our country recruiters are licensed and regulated and if they pulled this shit in the West they could be sued and prosecuted. This lack of ACCOUNTABILITY is the real problem. Chinese recruiters could rip off foreigners 24/7/365 and the Chinese government simply does not care.
http://scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=84192 |
The lack of accountability, etc. is something that someone finds out about AFTER one allows himself to be screwed. Mommy doesn't work in China, so one must think for himself. Moving to China is an adult decision that should be carefully considered and planned.
Believe it or not, NONE of the FTs in public universities where I've taught have EVER had the problems related in this forum by young first-timers who seem to have no fear of the realm of the possibility. Why? Older folks look before they leap. It really doesn't take much to sort the bad recruiters from the good. I have the feeling that a lot of the people who come to China and find themselves in major pickles over and over again experienced the same problems in spades back home. The difference between their never-ending odds with the status quo in China and that of their home country is that back home they can't be sent anywhere to straighten things out except to the street or to jail, or back to mommy and daddy.
The incessant, personal ax-grinding about recruiters should cease very soon. It is annoying, and that is is not the purpose of the forum. Sure, complain about a problem. Alert others. Take the opinions of others, then move on. Stop the harping.
I don't understand the recent vehement attacks on recruiters during the past few months. It seems to be a concerted effort by a small group or perhaps the effort of one person. I don't see the same number of attacks on other forums. |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: Re: China Foreign Teachers: Do Not Believe Job Agents About |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
I don't understand the recent vehement attacks on recruiters during the past few months. It seems to be a concerted effort by a small group or perhaps the effort of one person. I don't see the same number of attacks on other forums. |
There is definitely one person posting on these boards trying to promote the 'China Foreign Teacher Union' or something like that. Their posts are easy to spot and get old really quickly.
As for the attacks on recruiters, I understand them. Whilst I entirely agree people should do their research before coming here e.g. Z visa, know the requirements, get it in writing, check out the employer, etc. I do actually know of a person who was scammed by a recruiter and came did all of the above. Coming here will always involve some risk, it's up to the person to do their research, I have no sympathy that come here without doing so, which is probably 99% of the people who complain.
However, like the person I mentioned earlier, who got screwed over by a recruiter/FAO, sometimes their complaining is justified. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: China Foreign Teachers: Do Not Believe Job Agents About |
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| Shroob wrote: |
| Bud Powell wrote: |
I don't understand the recent vehement attacks on recruiters during the past few months. It seems to be a concerted effort by a small group or perhaps the effort of one person. I don't see the same number of attacks on other forums. |
There is definitely one person posting on these boards trying to promote the 'China Foreign Teacher Union' or something like that. Their posts are easy to spot and get old really quickly.
As for the attacks on recruiters, I understand them. Whilst I entirely agree people should do their research before coming here e.g. Z visa, know the requirements, get it in writing, check out the employer, etc. I do actually know of a person who was scammed by a recruiter and came did all of the above. Coming here will always involve some risk, it's up to the person to do their research, I have no sympathy that come here without doing so, which is probably 99% of the people who complain.
However, like the person I mentioned earlier, who got screwed over by a recruiter/FAO, sometimes their complaining is justified. |
Like I said though, get legal or get out. Not much thought needs to go into it. If being illegal is acceptable, that is the choice. |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: China Foreign Teachers: Do Not Believe Job Agents About |
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| wangdaning wrote: |
| Shroob wrote: |
| Bud Powell wrote: |
I don't understand the recent vehement attacks on recruiters during the past few months. It seems to be a concerted effort by a small group or perhaps the effort of one person. I don't see the same number of attacks on other forums. |
There is definitely one person posting on these boards trying to promote the 'China Foreign Teacher Union' or something like that. Their posts are easy to spot and get old really quickly.
As for the attacks on recruiters, I understand them. Whilst I entirely agree people should do their research before coming here e.g. Z visa, know the requirements, get it in writing, check out the employer, etc. I do actually know of a person who was scammed by a recruiter and came did all of the above. Coming here will always involve some risk, it's up to the person to do their research, I have no sympathy that come here without doing so, which is probably 99% of the people who complain.
However, like the person I mentioned earlier, who got screwed over by a recruiter/FAO, sometimes their complaining is justified. |
Like I said though, get legal or get out. Not much thought needs to go into it. If being illegal is acceptable, that is the choice. |
The person I knew WAS here legally. I'm not disagreeing there. But when you arrive in a foreign country, with no connections, and then get screwed over... it's a different matter. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Word, but you can still sort out your things. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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I got screwed my first and only time coming here. I met the lady in the US, which made me comfortable. It did not end well on there end. I am fine and relatively happy. I went down that road, and it sucked. Not to be confused with the road of the damned though.
It takes time and patience. Most of all, never be a victim. You can pick yourself up, move on, and have a better life. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Getting scammed by an FAO is an entirely different animal, and there are things that can be done to correct the situation. The most immediate source of relief is the City FAO. (Forget SAFEA It's a dead skunk in the middle of the road). The City FAO can straighten things out pronto. I've gone to the city FAO as a last ditch effort because I could find NOBODY to help me. A Chinese teacher gave me directions and told me which bus to take. I got there, and the city FAO and her assistant went to the school's office and found her AWOL. Her assistant was called on the carpet for his hand in the problem, and he was dragged to my apartment to apologize.
Be careful not to confuse the two.
The city FAO should also be able to intervene between an FT and a school owner if the school is legally authorized to hire FTs. That's the City FAO's job. If someone is hired by an unauthorized entity, he should go to the City Foreign Affairs Office and ask that person to report the offending entity to the police. That's also the job of the City FAO.
Your city doesn't have a City Foreign Affairs Office? If there's a public university or any business entity that's authorized to hire foreign workers (Asian and western), there's a City FAO.
If one feels scammed by a recruiter, once again, go to the City FAO because the school or business entity is involved and has a foreign worker (It doesn't matter if the worker is legal or illegal). The City FAO MUST address the situation pronto. Problems ensue when the foreign worker becomes (apparently) complicit in the scam by remaining in China illegally for weeks and months. For some reason, this information isn't widely known. Now, I'm putting it out here. This can help you if you find yourself in a bad situation. I urge people to be proactive.
Though I don't have statistics regarding this situation, I do know that this is how things are expected to work. I've been through it. I worked for a school for over a year when things started going south. I went to the city FAO and got a release from my contract PLUS airfare home. I even got a conciliatory letter from the City FAO when I arrived home.
Reason for edit: spnelling.
Last edited by Bud Powell on Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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I got screwed my first and only time coming here. I met the lady in the US, which made me comfortable. It did not end well on there end. I am fine and relatively happy. I went down that road, and it sucked. Not to be confused with the road of the damned though.
It takes time and patience. Most of all, never be a victim. You can pick yourself up, move on, and have a better life. |
I don't think it's fair to newcomers to be chastised for not knowing all the ins and outs of the Chinese ESL industry. Most long-timers know that there has never been any sort of consistency in this field, in this country. It's easy for us to sit back and point out the foibles of new members here at Dave's, but we all went through our green phase at some point in the past.
People are desperate for jobs these days. In hindsight we know that if something looks too good to be true here in China, then it probably is. I agree that people should not be working here illegally, but a lot of people that have never set foot in China cannot possibly realize how big of liars and scammers the Chinese people can be. What is the percentage of people coming here that are going to read Dave's first for the reams of information that it provides? Not too many I'd bet. They might track this site down AFTER they've arrived, but then too little, too late. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| kev7161 wrote: |
People are desperate for jobs these days. In hindsight we know that if something looks too good to be true here in China, then it probably is. I agree that people should not be working here illegally, but a lot of people that have never set foot in China cannot possibly realize how big of liars and scammers the Chinese people can be. What is the percentage of people coming here that are going to read Dave's first for the reams of information that it provides? Not too many I'd bet. They might track this site down AFTER they've arrived, but then too little, too late. |
Kev, no offense meant here but, when people are here a long time and start getting angry they say things like that. Chinese are not liars and scammers, people are liars and scammers. It is sad and I agree. Might be why it is so hard to find a job nowadays. It is not some kind of Chinese specialty, and personally, I find them bad at it.
I was on here before I came to China. Trusted someone in the states telling me one thing only to get here and have her family running that circus. Did not take long for me to move on. I think that is the point, if the situation is bad move on. Unlike what some say you are not a slave in this line of work. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: |
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What he means is, Chinese are more likely to scam than other people, and it's true.
Not from the local area? Take you on a long route in a cab.
Not from the local area? Price of bananas just doubled.
Tell you a lie to make you do something that puts you in trouble? Deny all blame. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
What he means is, Chinese are more likely to scam than other people, and it's true.
Not from the local area? Take you on a long route in a cab.
Not from the local area? Price of bananas just doubled.
Tell you a lie to make you do something that puts you in trouble? Deny all blame. |
The above happens all the time in New York City too...by non-Chinese to non-Chinese.
I go with wangdaning's point about PEOPLE being liars and scammers.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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