Job Discussion Forums

[rtm]

[Sashadroogie]

Not if they arrive in European universities to continue their education and academic research - and then fail utterly, due to a lack of even basic language skills, never mind EAP. Which is where Spiral is coming from.

[rtm]

[Sashadroogie]

Yes, that's fair enough. But it is hard to see any sort of goals being achieved, or how they would be achieved, from what we have seen.

[rtm]

[Bud Powell]

[Sashadroogie]

I wasn't talking about your classes.

[roadwalker]

I think Shroob's longer post has a lot of validity. Chinese students' struggles in universities overseas have more to do with Chinese teaching practices than anything their occasional foreign English teachers contribute. The better students are likely to choose the correct answers to grammar questions in a multiple-choice test, but will often struggle to hold a conversation both because of listening deficiencies and lack of practice speaking. Writing practice is also lacking, especially with effective criticism/instruction. Chinese writing is also less direct in approach, which no doubt hampers English writing assignments.

To the extent that Chinese students in China are exposed to foreign (native) English speakers, in oral English classes, I think those students benefit. Except for perhaps the worst of our lot, the teachers give the students practice in speaking, and in giving opinions, in listening (both to a native speaker and to their classmates). Perhaps more importantly, students get a bit of confidence based on their experience. We also expose them to class expectations of a western teacher, whether we have had teaching experience in the west or are just mimicking our own teachers from school age.

To make any significant progress though, China's foreign language instruction needs to be changed from a system that favors rote learning and recall.

[Shroob]

[Non Sequitur]

Problem is: 'How do you administer an oral exam to the millions of kids who sit the GaoKao?'
It's got to be done one-to-one as speaking is an individual (not a group) skill.
We look askance at rote learning it does have its place when you have a huge population aspiring to a basic level of education. Just don't expect the individuality you need for a conversation.
On this one my sympathies are with the Chinese.

[Bud Powell]

[Non Sequitur]

Lots there that I recognise.
My oral tests are students conversing with each other - 2/3 at a time.
I give say 3 topics and they choose one.
I listen and grade only.

[Alien abductee]

Over the course of my time in China I've seen many decent to very good English speakers pass through our school, some of whom went abroad to study and eventually live. Those who were successful achieved that due to natural ability and their own willingness to learn more on their own. The native speaking English teacher plays, at best, a minor part in the success of these particular ESL students. I'd say this is true not only in China but in other countries as well. FYI, I've got some experience outside China so this is not some wild assumption based on nothing.

[Non Sequitur]

FTs can console themselves by continuing to do their best for the 99.9999999999999999999999999% who don't meet that standard.

[Alien abductee]