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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| EFL Educator wrote: |
| The whole ASEAN region is now getting very strict with illegal English teachers. Indonesia will be no exception Don't be surprised if you see a lot more English teachers in jail these days in Indonesia... |
I see one assistant teacher and two administrators in jail in Indonesia right now (well, I can't actually see them, but I have fairly reliable information that they are in there). |
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SiThep
Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 39
Location: Thailand
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| mysterytrain wrote: |
| EFL Educator wrote: |
| The whole ASEAN region is now getting very strict with illegal English teachers. Indonesia will be no exception Don't be surprised if you see a lot more English teachers in jail these days in Indonesia... |
I see one assistant teacher and two administrators in jail in Indonesia right now (well, I can't actually see them, but I have fairly reliable information that they are in there). |
But that is due to the jis case. Nothing to do with visas. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| SiThep wrote: |
| mysterytrain wrote: |
| EFL Educator wrote: |
| The whole ASEAN region is now getting very strict with illegal English teachers. Indonesia will be no exception Don't be surprised if you see a lot more English teachers in jail these days in Indonesia... |
I see one assistant teacher and two administrators in jail in Indonesia right now (well, I can't actually see them, but I have fairly reliable information that they are in there). |
But that is due to the jis case. Nothing to do with visas. |
This is true. And one of them is WNI (Indonesian citizen). But if I'm not mistaken, the other two WERE on the list to be deported (because of inaccurate information on their visas, which was probably not their own fault), along with about twenty others, who WERE deported. Still that deportation is part of a case that is all about "politics and poker", not SOP in Indonesia.
And I personally think that a couple of the "warning: dark skies ahead" posts on this thread are a tad on the "chicken little, run and tell turkey lurkey" side, but I may be proved wrong... |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| SiThep wrote: |
| p1randal wrote: |
Thank you Mysterytrain...I hate even checking this thing as I know it is just a select few complaining about TBI over and over again. Here are solutions..
1. Get qualified so you don't need to take language mill jobs.
2. Shut up.
3. The end |
That isn't very helpful either. Actually the snobbery of some people who work at National Plus schools gets old too.
From what I have heard some of these schools cram 30 or even 35 students into a room and think that's quality education. Meanwhile the parents are paying how many 1000s of dollars a year for the privilege?
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Which doesn't have much of anything to do with whether one is working legally with proper papers or not... I work at a "Nat Plus", worked without KITAS for the first two or three months, since then, all paperwork good, no problems... for me personally, I like working in a Nat Plus because it is a "real school" with a sense of community, and I like that. The working hours are long, but one gets used to that after awhile. As to the quality of the education, the parents are free to choose to pay to send their kids there or not, not much to do with the teachers except that if they think the teachers are good, they are more likely to "pay'n'stay". Class sizes are what they are, no teacher likes huge classes. The average in my school this year seems to be about 25 to 27, a bit smaller than last year... |
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SiThep
Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 39
Location: Thailand
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| mysterytrain wrote: |
| SiThep wrote: |
| mysterytrain wrote: |
| EFL Educator wrote: |
| The whole ASEAN region is now getting very strict with illegal English teachers. Indonesia will be no exception Don't be surprised if you see a lot more English teachers in jail these days in Indonesia... |
I see one assistant teacher and two administrators in jail in Indonesia right now (well, I can't actually see them, but I have fairly reliable information that they are in there). |
But that is due to the jis case. Nothing to do with visas. |
This is true. And one of them is WNI (Indonesian citizen). But if I'm not mistaken, the other two WERE on the list to be deported (because of inaccurate information on their visas, which was probably not their own fault), along with about twenty others, who WERE deported. Still that deportation is part of a case that is all about "politics and poker", not SOP in Indonesia.
And I personally think that a couple of the "warning: dark skies ahead" posts on this thread are a tad on the "chicken little, run and tell turkey lurkey" side, but I may be proved wrong... |
My point was that I had never heard of any tefl teachers goign to jail in Indo for visa issues. It's happened a few times in Thailand and I would absolutely tell people DO NOT work illegally in Thailand (and I wouldn't make any apologies for using the caps lock). Even if you can bribe your way out of it who wants to hand over a month's salary or more just to stay out of court. Not worth it. But I have never heard of jail time for visa issues in Indo. That's the narrow point I was making. No comment really about EFL Educator's crystal ball skills. We will see how things turn out. But it is hard not to get the feeling that the humble tefl teacher isn't as welcome in Asia as he used to be. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| SiThep wrote: |
My point was that I had never heard of any tefl teachers goign to jail in Indo for visa issues. It's happened a few times in Thailand and I would absolutely tell people DO NOT work illegally in Thailand (and I wouldn't make any apologies for using the caps lock). Even if you can bribe your way out of it who wants to hand over a month's salary or more just to stay out of court. Not worth it. But I have never heard of jail time for visa issues in Indo. That's the narrow point I was making. No comment really about EFL Educator's crystal ball skills. We will see how things turn out. But it is hard not to get the feeling that the humble tefl teacher isn't as welcome in Asia as he used to be. |
Yep, in general, I find it hard to argue with that one... it is most definitely the case here, and apparently in Thailand, Vietnam... China? Not sure. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| SiThep wrote: |
My point was that I had never heard of any tefl teachers goign to jail in Indo for visa issues. It's happened a few times in Thailand and I would absolutely tell people DO NOT work illegally in Thailand (and I wouldn't make any apologies for using the caps lock). Even if you can bribe your way out of it who wants to hand over a month's salary or more just to stay out of court. Not worth it. But I have never heard of jail time for visa issues in Indo. That's the narrow point I was making. No comment really about EFL Educator's crystal ball skills. We will see how things turn out. But it is hard not to get the feeling that the humble tefl teacher isn't as welcome in Asia as he used to be. |
Yep, in general, I find it hard to argue with that one... it is most definitely the case here, and apparently in Thailand, Vietnam... China? Not sure. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Is it any surprise? EFL Teachers have a bad reputation all across Asia for being boozing, women chasing, low-life scum who come into countries, often illegally, and work... and earn more money than the the majority of the local population while they do it. |
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bradleycooper
Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| mysterytrain wrote: |
| SiThep wrote: |
My point was that I had never heard of any tefl teachers goign to jail in Indo for visa issues. It's happened a few times in Thailand and I would absolutely tell people DO NOT work illegally in Thailand (and I wouldn't make any apologies for using the caps lock). Even if you can bribe your way out of it who wants to hand over a month's salary or more just to stay out of court. Not worth it. But I have never heard of jail time for visa issues in Indo. That's the narrow point I was making. No comment really about EFL Educator's crystal ball skills. We will see how things turn out. But it is hard not to get the feeling that the humble tefl teacher isn't as welcome in Asia as he used to be. |
Yep, in general, I find it hard to argue with that one... it is most definitely the case here, and apparently in Thailand, Vietnam... China? Not sure. |
As for China there has been a criminal record check in place since about a year ago. At the same time they brought in a 2 years' experience rule in addition to a degree. If you work there illegally and get caught you can be fined up to 20,000 RMB, which is around $3300. So yes, the general direction is towards raising the bar in Asia. Is it a good thing?
Overall, I think it is. Anyway, freelancers now have Skype. You can get $15 an hour with privates online and live anywhere these days. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| bradleycooper wrote: |
As for China there has been a criminal record check in place since about a year ago. At the same time they brought in a 2 years' experience rule in addition to a degree. If you work there illegally and get caught you can be fined up to 20,000 RMB, which is around $3300. So yes, the general direction is towards raising the bar in Asia. Is it a good thing?
Overall, I think it is.
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I think the CRC and degree requirements are definitely good, as long as they don't make the CRC requirement overly complicated or difficult to satisfy. Not requiring some sort of CRC is just foolishness that has gone on for too long on the part of many countries, it's good that they are finally "waking up" on this. The degree requirement plus the CRC should help to keep some of the "scumbags" as ExpatLuke put it, out and that makes for a greater choice in jobs among the rest of us (although those of us with a degree and at least some teaching qualifications should have it over those without, anyway).
The only one I have somewhat of a problem with is the "experience requirement", same as in Indonesia (5 years!?!). In the first place, I think experience should be a requirement optional to the employer, not one stipulated by the government(s).
And it won't make a difference to me now, since I have four years of teaching experience, but my first teaching job was in China. I was hired for what would probably be considered a "hardship post" (or "crazy person" post) in Xinjiang Province with a degree, a few education courses and a few years of experience working as a tutor in public schools in the United States. I didn't even have a TEFL cert at the time, nor for the entire year I taught there, and I didn't have as much as a second of actual classroom teaching experience or even "observed practice" when I started.
None of that stopped me from doing a basic job, providing a recognized service and benefit for the school and local education bureau, and getting my feet wet and started on the learning curve as a teacher. Most of these schools in China are not exactly trying to land a Master Teacher, they are pretty well satisfied with a native speaker who can walk and chew gum, hopefully doesn't have an outrageous and unintelligible accent or speech impediment, and won't rape any students, march around with a banner proclaiming "Mao is a Fink!", or otherwise embarrass the school.
If one has to have experience teaching somewhere to get a job teaching anywhere, how does one get any "experience" in the first place? How to get a chicken if there is no egg? Same old conundrum. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
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The one problem I do see with the CRC requirement, as it seems to be used in some countries, is this: many countries seem to insist on a CRC from the teacher's "home country". Now this makes sense ... except that many of us have been teaching abroad for several years or more, and have spent all of maybe a few months in our home countries during that time.
Would it not be more logical and sensible to ask for, and accept, a CRC from the country or countries we have been living in? We have to, in some cases, go back to our home country just to obtain this CRC for a job in the next country? This doesn't make sense does it? I know, I know, most of these countries "stopped making sense" long ago, if they ever did.  |
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SiThep
Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 39
Location: Thailand
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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For what it's worth Jef Dam posted on this board last year and invited people who didn't have the right degree to contact him. I sent him a PM to see what he would say and he provided me with a list of 6 schools in Indo that might be willing to "work around" the regulations. So it does make me suspicious when he keeps appearing on threads about visas and telling people not to worry. He seems to be some sort of unofficial recruiter for a number of smaller schools. In the end I decided to stay away from him and feel others should probably do the same.  |
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jef dam
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| SiThep wrote: |
| For what it's worth Jef Dam posted on this board last year and invited people who didn't have the right degree to contact him. I sent him a PM to see what he would say and he provided me with a list of 6 schools in Indo that might be willing to "work around" the regulations. So it does make me suspicious when he keeps appearing on threads about visas and telling people not to worry. He seems to be some sort of unofficial recruiter for a number of smaller schools. In the end I decided to stay away from him and feel others should probably do the same. |
Good point, well made. |
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EFL Educator
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 988
Location: Cape Town
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Sanity check in store for ESL schools coming soon...[/b]..rule after rule...now let me see next they will be asking for a breathing check.....so you don't have a heart attack in the classroom. LOL |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| SiThep wrote: |
| For what it's worth Jef Dam posted on this board last year and invited people who didn't have the right degree to contact him. I sent him a PM to see what he would say and he provided me with a list of 6 schools in Indo that might be willing to "work around" the regulations. So it does make me suspicious when he keeps appearing on threads about visas and telling people not to worry. He seems to be some sort of unofficial recruiter for a number of smaller schools. In the end I decided to stay away from him and feel others should probably do the same. |
Yeah... I don't personally give a flying crap about jefdam, Markustm or whomever. I'm not buying whatever they may be selling, but they are free to operate within the bounds of this forum, this country or whatever, subject to the authorities of those jurisdictions (Forum admin, mods, Indonesian government, etc).
Anyone involved in this business or any other needs to use his or her intellect, experience, common sense and intuition, "sixth sense" or whatever one wants to call it when going forward with any endeavor or considering the same. Those who are better armed and defended will probably win more battles than those who aren't.
I don't have a degree in English, I have a BA in Legal Studies. According to what I know, my degree and my minimal teaching qualifications made me "ineligible" to work legally as a teacher in this country, even in 2011 when I came here. Nevertheless, I have been working here for three years, legally except for the first few months while my KITAS was still being processed, and I expect no problems during the remainder of my contract here, if not further ahead. The future always becomes more "awang awang" the further it gets from the present, of course.
Whatever the official requirements may be, if whoever wants to employ you can get an IMTA and KITAS for you, you are "street legal" once you've got them. If an employer can get them, no need for the employee to worry too much about how they were gotten.
Everybody should know that it is NOT LEGAL to work on anything other than an IMTA (employment permit) and KITAS (resident visa), that much is true. It is totally illegal to do contractual work on any other kind of visa, like Sosbud or Business, and it's fine to warn others about that here, in my opinion.
It just doesn't need to be rehashed on every single thread, over and over, or to be a sort of political football in someone's private, personal feud. If one wants to carry on such a battle, please do so, by all means... just not here, in this public forum which is meant to be shared by all and to serve a public function for everyone. My opinion. |
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