Job Discussion Forums

[SiThep]

[EFL Educator]

Oh YES...and EFL Physical checks (Pulse rate etc.)..did I miss anything else?!?LOL

[mysterytrain]

Perhaps you missed it, but the new government requirements for foreign teachers (beginning 2015) have recently been revealed:

U/U 321 , pasal 4:

"The foreign teachers of English MUST hold passport / citizenship from one of the following countries: Albania, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Angola, Liechtenstien. No others will be considered."

"The foreign teachers must have a MINIMUM of four eyes. Two as per the usual location; one in the center of the forehead; and one in the small of the back. A small hole should be cut in the teacher's clothing at the back to allow him / her to observe the students while he / she is writing on the whiteboard or otherwise has his / her face turned away from the class."

"Foreign teachers of English are required to be fluent in Swahili AND Urdu and must pass a written examination proving competency."

"All foreign teachers MUST have advanced degees in basketweaving, cupcake making, pitching horseshoes or similar subject, in ADDITION to a Phd. or higher in TEII ('Teaching English In Indonesia')."

"Only foreign teachers with twenty years of previous teaching experience IN Indonesia (minimum) will be considered."

"MUST be able to whistle while chewing gum at the same time."

[EFL Educator]

Yes and the LAST rule is that the student is always right and the teacher is always wrong! LOL

[p1randal]

While this post has taken on a sort of "mocking tone" it does begin to echo the lack of seriousness people take in this job (some). Who could give a reason why someone shouldn't:

1. Have a degree pertaining to his/her job (I.E Teaching English)
2. Have a recent physical so they are physically capable and not going to get sick or have lingering effects of alcoholism and other illnesses.
3. Recent (This is one where a serious debate could be started as to how this needs to be done) Criminal Check
4. 5 years experience
5. 3 References

I know Indonesia can be a hard place to recruit to sometimes and the schools are cheap but the government shouldn't care about any of that stuff. Their job is to set standards for their citizens to work under. All to often people in Indonesia get a defeatist attitude.."The corruption will ruin it anyway and blah blah.

[EFL Educator]

What is happening now is all a sign of the times...and times to come..and I am taking a realist not defeatist attitude towards all this nonsense. It is getting harder and harder for us in the ESL profession to earn a living (with salaries that remain stagnant) creating a major obstacle course for many (especially newbies) to this profession. So for every rule there is another rule to be made and so on...and so on etc. etc.!!!

[bradleycooper]

While this post has taken on a sort of "mocking tone" it does begin to echo the lack of seriousness people take in this job (some). Who could give a reason why someone shouldn't:

1. Have a degree pertaining to his/her job (I.E Teaching English)
2. Have a recent physical so they are physically capable and not going to get sick or have lingering effects of alcoholism and other illnesses.
3. Recent (This is one where a serious debate could be started as to how this needs to be done) Criminal Check
4. 5 years experience
5. 3 References

This is a good post from p1randal and I think he raises serious issues. I generally agree with his perspective, though I don't see the harm in a few jokes either. But honestly the situation before the new DIKNAS regulations was dire and many students were wasting their money on Native Speaker "experts" whose only qualification was an online TEFL certificate that was probably good as worthless. Something did need to change.

I also think it is easy to overlook the fact that the bar is higher than it was just 5 years ago. Back then there were legions of "teachers" who wandered into class, told a yarn or had a chat about the football and thought that this was teaching. Indonesians are a friendly bunch overall, and many of the students will warm to anyone with an outgoing personality. But after 6 months, or sometimes even longer, it would dawn on them that they weren't actually progressing. I saw that so many times that I couldn't begin to count.

In my opinion, and I know Piranda1 disagrees, any Bachelor degree should be good enough to teach in an informal sector language school. You just don't need that much expert knowledge to teach 7 year olds to learn how to count or name animals. For me the ability think critically is the main thing you learn at university and if you have a degree and a well-respected TEFL qualification, surely you should be able to teach up to Intermediate General English.

On the other hand, I think this is a largely a moot point. The rules are what they are, and DIKNAS is not for shifting. At this point the main thing we can wish for is a reasonable amount of compliance with existing laws and a level playing field. The best regulations on Earth are useless if they are not enforced. This area leaves a lot to be desired.

The one thing I absolutely don't agree with is 5 years' experience. That's a nonsense. How can anyone ever get 5 years' experience if no one will give you a start? This one really is a step too far. In reality, this rule is only going to inspire a lot of creative CV writing. China's 2 year rule is better but really, if you have the qualifications, it should be up to the school to decide whether they want you.

[p1randal]

EFL Educator mentioned: " It is getting harder and harder for us in the ESL profession to earn a living (with salaries that remain stagnant) creating a major obstacle course for many (especially newbies) to this profession."

-This statement I hear and just baffles and confuses me. Last year I made 13 million and I had bills (housing,elec,cable,ect) that came to about 1.5 so I had 11.5 Net every month. I'm not really a miser (Gf in Jkt, Trip to Bali, Club every so often, sushi, etc) and I came back to USA with 50 million (Roughly 5k USA).

I can't really comment on my salary this year (Due to contract rules) but I can say it is higher. I expect (it to increase) every year that I stay at this current school. Even a million a month is 1k a year raise.

Salaries remain stagnant when you are unqualified and or aren't doing a good job. I worked in retail for many years people would always say "no raises this year" but then I went to evaluation and I got a dollar raise..haha.

One big variable is CHILDREN as once you have to send them to school your expenses go wayyyy up as my school doesn't let your children attend for free.

I may not be living the life that most on the board are describing..If at EF, TBI, WALL Street you are making 7-9 and paying 2 for bills and and that leaves you with 5-7 for the month and they don't give raises well then yes, I agree, that does suck.

My reason for asking for qualifications and experience and the things I listed is that if I was going to a Doctor for a throat problem I wouldn't want someone with a botany degree. We are essentially ESL doctors using contemporary theory and ideas to cure our students problems...So therefore to be an ESL doctor you need a degree as such.

End

[princesss]

I'm just going to point out that the language schools Piranda mentions pay a lot more than he thinks they do in most cases. The figures you mention are the lower end for the industry. Some people get much more working at those schools.

Personally I wish Diknas would focus on the public schools in Indonesia, which are abysmal. When the system they run is ranked 110th in the world, how much confidence do you have that they know what's best for the private sector? Still, I do absolutely agree a CRC is needed. The last thing the industry needs at this stage is for a fugitive to be arrested in Indonesia working as a teacher.

[mysterytrain]

[Tudor]

P1randal - if you live up to your own standards of having a relevant English-related degree, five years+ experience, 3 decent references etc and you only earned 13jt last year, then you're doing something wrong. I know teachers in Jakarta WITHOUT degrees earning 25-30jt a month at "international" schools (including at one of the schools you listed elsewhere as being supposedly reputable despite knowingly employing degree-less individuals and presumably duping parents into believing that their little darlings are being taught by fully-qualified teachers).

And Princess is right, the likes of Wall Street and TBI's starting salaries are 15jt in Jakarta - experienced or senior teachers will be earning 18-20jt at these places.

[EFL Educator]

Psychiatric evaluation (MENTALLY FIT FOR TEACHING ENGLISH) requirement needed too...for long term EFL patients...or so called teachers!!

[princesss]

[p1randal]

Oh I knew coming into it I was getting underpaid..I took the job to be in an area I like and, as we all know, the contracts are only a year or 2. So if I don't like it I can move to a new school or leave.

I mentioned the money to show how you can save without making 20 million plus. People who can save..save, and people who can't..can't. It doesn't have much to do with amounts.

I mentioned 7-9 as that is what a few people I have met told me. Then again, I could very well be totally off base. This is a mute point to me. People make what they are worth.

I don't care if schools hire workers illegally and or if people work there. Some people will do that as well as some companies in any line of work. I am referring to what we as professionals should want to see.

I have my opinions about Ed-Degree's as every time we(the school I am working for) hires someone with a non education based degree I have to spend 2 weeks training them on stuff they should know. Things like Bloom, Krashen, Scaffolding, UBD, 21st century Ed, Holistic Ed, Collaborative vs group work..Frankly I don't care if you are a native speaker as much as if you can coach the kids to speak like one..

My school is a bit different and I can understand if you are at a language mill setting where the students are just learning to speak but still I would like to see what I have outline above.

Last point, psychological help is needed in our community and it really isn't a joking matter. The alcoholism and suicides that plague the community are horrible matters. Hopefully that will change in the future.

[Tudor]

Sorry Princess but I'm not naming schools as I'm not willing to point the finger at anyone who works at these places - I don't see that would achieve anything. I simply wanted to debunk the myth that EF is the only job someone without a degree can get in Indonesia - this is nonsense and, rightly or wrongly, it's quite easy for these teachers to get well-paid jobs at semi-reputable schools. I also wanted to highlight that at least two of the schools P1randal held up to be bastions of education are anything but as they'll hire any Tom, Dick or Harry regardless of their educational background or lack thereof. It all goes to show what a complete joke the so-called "regulations" are.

As for Penabur...it's my understanding that their three international schools pay 18jt while their nat+ pay 15jt. I think these salaries are non-negotiable although that wasn't always the case but different teachers earning different salaries for doing the same job understandably caused resentment when teachers discovered what each other earns. I also believe these salaries are the same regardless of location which is why TBI in Bandung often loses teachers to Penabur as they pay 15jt as opposed to TBI's 11-12jt.