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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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 Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: When things go wrong: Working in China |
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| OnTheRun wrote: |
| By the way, to be honest, once upon a time (a month ago), prior to my actual experience I would have laughed at such a seemingly implausible story as well; and so, it it this personal acceptance which helps me keep my patients in the face of public doubt and criticism... |
Use of double sens: 2/10 |
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OnTheRun
Joined: 06 Aug 2014
Posts: 27
Location: Chicago, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Buckeye Bob wrote: |
I agree with Jim Pellow guys. The bias in China is growing against foreigners regardless of our qualifications and credentials. They are even bouncing out McKinsey and their team of respected international expert consultants. Why? I think they now believe their wealth is a substitute for knowledge. They can now buy the technology they could never develop on their own and no longer need foreigners to hold their hand an lead the way.
The other reason is because they know most foreigners are on to their crafty ways of stealing IP and all their business scams were exposed long ago and the low-hanging fruit is long gone. |
I agree with both you and Jim on this point. While there are some obvious signs: tightening of visa requirements, rising detentions and deportations, public beatings, etc, there are a number of not so obvious signs as well: Increasing regional conflicts with neighbors (Japan Vietnam, Philippines, etc), a huge gap between the rich and the average, the de-emphasis of English on the National College Admissions Exam, hyper-nationalistic TV shows, etc ... Perhaps the latter group of events is the most troubling. There is a history of China closing its gates to the world, and perhaps I am just being overly pessimistic (paranoid?) but it appears to me that the government will use/is using nationalism as domestic club, shield and international bayonet (when the time comes) ....
Once again, many people forget (I have been a member of this group) that China has a history of closing its gates. With that in mind, it might be wise for foreign nationals living in China to put resources aside, while concurrently developing a Plan B exit strategy, just in case history repeats itself... |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| OnTheRun wrote: |
| Buckeye Bob wrote: |
I agree with Jim Pellow guys. The bias in China is growing against foreigners regardless of our qualifications and credentials. They are even bouncing out McKinsey and their team of respected international expert consultants. Why? I think they now believe their wealth is a substitute for knowledge. They can now buy the technology they could never develop on their own and no longer need foreigners to hold their hand an lead the way.
The other reason is because they know most foreigners are on to their crafty ways of stealing IP and all their business scams were exposed long ago and the low-hanging fruit is long gone. |
I agree with both you and Jim on this point. While there are some obvious signs: tightening of visa requirements, rising detentions and deportations, public beatings, etc, there are a number of not so obvious signs as well: Increasing regional conflicts with neighbors (Japan Vietnam, Philippines, etc), a huge gap between the rich and the average, the de-emphasis of English on the National College Admissions Exam, hyper-nationalistic TV shows, etc ... Perhaps the latter group of events is the most troubling. There is a history of China closing its gates to the world, and perhaps I am just being overly pessimistic (paranoid?) but it appears to me that the government will use/is using nationalism as domestic club, shield and international bayonet (when the time comes) ....
Once again, many people forget (I have been a member of this group) that China has a history of closing its gates. With that in mind, it might be wise for foreign nationals living in China to put resources aside, while concurrently developing a Plan B exit strategy, just in case history repeats itself... |
I must have been blind to miss all of this.
Last edited by wangdaning on Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Need to be sober when I type
Last edited by wangdaning on Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Need to be sober when I type
Last edited by wangdaning on Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Need to be sober when I type
Last edited by wangdaning on Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Listerine
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Posts: 340
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:07 am Post subject: |
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What'chu talkin' 'bout, Willis?
Bought the counterfeit syphilis meds again by mistake? |
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: When things go wrong: Working in China |
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| OnTheRun wrote: |
By the way, to be honest, once upon a time (a month ago), prior to my actual experience I would have laughed at such a seemingly implausible story as well; and so, it it this personal acceptance which helps me keep my patients in the face of public doubt and criticism...
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I'm glad to hear your second job as a medic is going ok. Are you keeping your students as well? |
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OnTheRun
Joined: 06 Aug 2014
Posts: 27
Location: Chicago, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: When things go wrong: Working in China |
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| MuscatGary wrote: |
| OnTheRun wrote: |
By the way, to be honest, once upon a time (a month ago), prior to my actual experience I would have laughed at such a seemingly implausible story as well; and so, it it this personal acceptance which helps me keep my patients in the face of public doubt and criticism...
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I'm glad to hear your second job as a medic is going ok. Are you keeping your students as well? |
MuscatGary,
Ha, ha, ha.... Sorry for the typo. I actually meant "Patience" not "Patients".....
By the way, I am currently back in Chicago looking for a job as either a Web Developer or Software engineer; however, if something opens up here in the ESL field I will probably jump on it.... |
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Riff Raff
Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Show us proof of your tale. You can easily provide docs from USA and China. |
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OnTheRun
Joined: 06 Aug 2014
Posts: 27
Location: Chicago, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Riff Raff wrote: |
| Show us proof of your tale. You can easily provide docs from USA and China. |
Riff Raff
Well....
There are some things I can send you, and some things I cannot:
While I don’t think we can embed images in our posts, if you send me an email, I will attach a scan of the canceled residence permit and the deportation / exit visa I had to purchase (400RMB) to leave the country...
Of course, this will more than likely not be enough to remove doubt, but unfortunately I cannot send you a copy of the “Detention Receipt” I received (was offered by) from the police. This receipt stated the legal grounds for my detention and the length of time. The reason I don’t have it to send is because, upon being read my receipt (it was written in Chinese) at the courthouse, and learning of my fate (5 days and 5000RMB) I became even more angry and refused to sign it (Yes, even when you are being sent to jail, they expect you to sign off on it). I then demanded (perhaps for the fifth time?) to be allowed to call my embassy.
Maybe the police thought that I would sign on the dotted line if they agreed, or maybe they just knew they were holding all the cards, regardless of what my embassy said. Anyway, after reaching the call center at the embassy (Yes, call center!) I was informed that 1) There would be no Rambo style rescue forthcoming. 2) This was not breaking news. Others had gone before me. 3) Signing might make things easier on me, and 4) I was about to see a side of China, that I would have preferred to avoid....
I hung up and once again refused to sign. Furious, the police signed the receipt in my place and off to prison I went. As I stated in my original post, I was given a physical and uniform after I arrived at the prison. I was also offered my detention receipt one last time, and again I refused. This last, refusal, as things turned out was quite foolish because, as I later learned this “Detention Receipt” was something that was usually only given to Chinese inmates. The average foreigner had no paperwork. Why had I received it where others had not? My best guess is, where I had been arrested by municipal police the others had been captured by emigration police; and, as far as I can tell the emigration police have a different protocol altogether. Informing people as to exactly why they are being arrested and the length of detention does not seem to be a part of this protocol either...
Last but not least, my 5th day came and went, but in prison I remained. I started to panic because, not only was I ‘in prison in China’, I had no paperwork to prove it was time to let me out (although, as I posted earlier I would be deported in any case). None the less, a lady from the US embassy came a day or two later and I was released after my flight ticket was organized... |
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litterascriptor
Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| OnTheRun wrote: |
| Riff Raff wrote: |
| Show us proof of your tale. You can easily provide docs from USA and China. |
Riff Raff
Well....
There are some things I can send you, and some things I cannot:
While I don’t think we can embed images in our posts, if you send me an email, I will attach a scan of the canceled residence permit and the deportation / exit visa I had to purchase (400RMB) to leave the country...
Of course, this will more than likely not be enough to remove doubt, but unfortunately I cannot send you a copy of the “Detention Receipt” I received (was offered by) from the police. This receipt stated the legal grounds for my detention and the length of time. The reason I don’t have it to send is because, upon being read my receipt (it was written in Chinese) at the courthouse, and learning of my fate (5 days and 5000RMB) I became even more angry and refused to sign it (Yes, even when you are being sent to jail, they expect you to sign off on it). I then demanded (perhaps for the fifth time?) to be allowed to call my embassy.
Maybe the police thought that I would sign on the dotted line if they agreed, or maybe they just knew they were holding all the cards, regardless of what my embassy said. Anyway, after reaching the call center at the embassy (Yes, call center!) I was informed that 1) There would be no Rambo style rescue forthcoming. 2) This was not breaking news. Others had gone before me. 3) Signing might make things easier on me, and 4) I was about to see a side of China, that I would have preferred to avoid....
I hung up and once again refused to sign. Furious, the police signed the receipt in my place and off to prison I went. As I stated in my original post, I was given a physical and uniform after I arrived at the prison. I was also offered my detention receipt one last time, and again I refused. This last, refusal, as things turned out was quite foolish because, as I later learned this “Detention Receipt” was something that was usually only given to Chinese inmates. The average foreigner had no paperwork. Why had I received it where others had not? My best guess is, where I had been arrested by municipal police the others had been captured by emigration police; and, as far as I can tell the emigration police have a different protocol altogether. Informing people as to exactly why they are being arrested and the length of detention does not seem to be a part of this protocol either...
Last but not least, my 5th day came and went, but in prison I remained. I started to panic because, not only was I ‘in prison in China’, I had no paperwork to prove it was time to let me out (although, as I posted earlier I would be deported in any case). None the less, a lady from the US embassy came a day or two later and I was released after my flight ticket was organized... |
Shots fired!
Ball is in your court riff raff...
:popcorn: |
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Riff Raff
Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:54 am Post subject: |
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His story is possible, and I tend to believe it. He claims some paperwork was mishandled, and he got put through the ringer for it. China has an unfortunate history of wild situations.
His writing didn't feel like an American. His story is extreme. He can put proof online and post links. Otherwise, I'm not going to read on. |
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FelixHalson
Joined: 22 Aug 2013
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Riff Raff wrote: |
His story is possible, and I tend to believe it. He claims some paperwork was mishandled, and he got put through the ringer for it. China has an unfortunate history of wild situations.
His writing didn't feel like an American. His story is extreme. He can put proof online and post links. Otherwise, I'm not going to read on. |
I have only just seen this thread and it's been interesting reading all the responses, especially those ferociously doubting the veracity of the OP's account.
For what it's worth, given that there seems to be a large amount of debate surrounding the issue, I know (knew?) the OP and can confirm that the events he has posted about did happen and that this wasn't simply scaremongering on his part. I guess my meagre post count won't help people believe me any more than they do his tale, but I created my account some time ago, so it's not as if I have suddenly registered just to support the OP.
Hope this helps! |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| FelixHalson wrote: |
| Riff Raff wrote: |
His story is possible, and I tend to believe it. He claims some paperwork was mishandled, and he got put through the ringer for it. China has an unfortunate history of wild situations.
His writing didn't feel like an American. His story is extreme. He can put proof online and post links. Otherwise, I'm not going to read on. |
I have only just seen this thread and it's been interesting reading all the responses, especially those ferociously doubting the veracity of the OP's account.
For what it's worth, given that there seems to be a large amount of debate surrounding the issue, I know (knew?) the OP and can confirm that the events he has posted about did happen and that this wasn't simply scaremongering on his part. I guess my meagre post count won't help people believe me any more than they do his tale, but I created my account some time ago, so it's not as if I have suddenly registered just to support the OP.
Hope this helps! |
Most trolls acquire many accounts at once. How can you validate his prison experience, where you there? After jail the only thing my father said is don't talk about it and don't go there.
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