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KSU: Job offer, Qualifications, advice required
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thomas_pynchon



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was one question I had, will I need to return to Canada first before flying to SA? (currently in Bkk).
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SheikMilkShake



Joined: 02 Jul 2014
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You said
"My qualifications are:
TESL Canada Federation Professional Certificate Level III (Permanent)
M.A. Applied Linguistics and TESOL, Leicester
TESOL Advanced Teaching Certificate, Leicester
B.Music
15 years teaching experience"
and you come with a list of questions ( for a veteran/ not a fresh graduate).

You would not get a job as your interviewer may find you as a potential threat ( too many Qs), or you would surely have problems once inside KSA.

Interviewers are someone to communicate with you as a point person, you may never see him or her again or, he may not have answers for you except the info stated in the contract that would be sent to you for WORK visa application.

Saudi (teaching) environment will be a whole new thing for you, it is different from what you have experienced before. One can make tons of $$$, and it is the best place for saving $$.


Good luck!

P.S. Sometimes, I cant choose which one, VS or NS, is sweeter. Look at the way they answer.
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thomas_pynchon



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that's what forums are for, and sharing benefits others having to make similar decisions. Thanks Very Happy
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thomas_pynchon wrote:
I need some feedback on this one from an experienced eye, would this be the plum that folks keep talking about?

Possibly. However, based on some of the questions you've asked thus far in this thread, the two requirements that work against you as someone who's never been to the Middle East are:

• A minimum of five (5) years’ relevant teaching experience at the secondary, technical, or tertiary level, preferably in the MENA region

Familiarity with and respect for the multicultural diversity and traditions that exist in Saudi Arabia

and wrote:
Funny, the requirements are fairly low, not much different from your average recruitment agency, they even seem kind of laid back.

You're still looking for 'rigorous'... Anyway, AMIDEAST seems 'laid back' because it's an American and not Saudi organization. They've been a fixture in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) for half a century. I suggest you read up on them (http://www.amideast.org/).

As for having to return to Canada for visa purposes, that's very likely.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if AMIDEAST is running this program or merely recruiting. They've been around the MENA forever and have usually been a very dependable, predictable organization to work for/with. (the check always clears and arrives on time, management is usually experienced and relatively sane.)

If you reach the interview stage, I would ask if they are merely recruiting, who will be the employer and management. (then you need to check them out on here)

Don't worry about the time limit question. It merely tells them if you are looking for long or short term employment. Obviously, they want people who are going to stay a few years, but once one is hired, it can be renewed pretty much indefinitely if both sides agree. (at the 4 th year, they are not going to say... but but but you only said 3 years on your application)

VS
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
I'm not sure if AMIDEAST is running this program or merely recruiting.

AMIDEAST isn't just recruiting.

From a Sept. 2013 US-Saudi Arabian Business Council bulletin:
    AMIDEAST, a North American non-profit engaged in international training, education, and development activities in the Middle East and North Africa, signed a five-year training agreement with Saudi Electric Services Polytechnic (SESP), a subsidiary of Saudi Electricity Company (SEC). The agreement outlines the terms for the establishment of a training program designed to raise the English language, math, and science skills of new SEC recruits. AMIDEAST will manage the new English Language and Technical Bridging Program at the Juaymah Training Center, recruiting the educators, managing the program, and supervising delivery of instruction to the 400 annual recruits at the center.

    Source: http://www.us-sabc.org/custom/news/details.cfm?id=1495
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thomas_pynchon wrote:
That was one question I had, will I need to return to Canada first before flying to SA? (currently in Bkk).


Illegal business visa NO

Temporary work visa YES

Employment visa YES

So it depends on what your company is planning on having issued for you.
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thomas_pynchon wrote:
What are the typical interview question I should be prepared to answer?

If things turned out sour, how do people usually deal with that, 30 days notice?

Thanks


One month's salary paid by you to them, then they give you your exit visa.

They don't follow Western rules.

Obtaining another job in the KSA could be a problem afterwards.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:

AMIDEAST isn't just recruiting.

Source: http://www.us-sabc.org/custom/news/details.cfm?id=1495[/list]

That is good news. Your questions are mainly ones that you should ask them... and you can trust their answers.

VS
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thomas_pynchon



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted this on the CALL teacher board, no response though; I will post it again here in case someone might have some ideas.

Amideast are looking for candidates who have 'Learning management systems (LMS) experience,' (Blackboard, moodle, Networked learning environments, etc): "Applicants with LMS management experience may be considered for part-time assignment to that function."

I don't have that experience now, but I plan to move into distributed Learning in the next 3-4 years, and was planning to do the 'Graduate Certificate in Online Teaching and Learning' this year by distance from TRU: http://www.tru.ca/distance/programs/graduate-certificate-online-teaching.html

I am wondering if I should, or how I might, work this 'professional development' project into my application? I assume they would be interested in candidates with a specific interest in this area that are actively working to upgrade their qualifications? Then again they might just want people with the experience already.

They mention in the duties the following:

•Mark tests and record grades using the learning management system
•Supervise Computer Assisted Language Learning (CALL) lab sessions
• Keep accurate student attendance in the student information system
•Utilize the learning management system (LMS) for instructional and administration purposes.
• Knowledgeable, experienced and enthusiastic about using educational technology for teaching purposes.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thomas_pynchon wrote:
I don't have that experience now, but I plan to move into distributed Learning in the next 3-4 years, and was planning to do the 'Graduate Certificate in Online Teaching and Learning' this year by distance...

I am wondering if I should, or how I might, work this 'professional development' project into my application? I assume they would be interested in candidates with a specific interest in this area that are actively working to upgrade their qualifications? Then again they might just want people with the experience already.

There's no work around; AMIDEAST expects to see applicants with experience in LMS and not those who simply have an interest but no background in it. It's clearly stated in the job ad. The other requirement that's a major challenge for you is your lack of Mid East experience, specifically "familiarity with and respect for the multicultural diversity and traditions that exist in Saudi Arabia." The ad also indicates a preference for applicants who have worked in the Kingdom. Frankly, Saudi Arabia was the 3rd ME country I'd lived in, and it was a bit of an adjustment even for me, despite my basic Arabic language skills and knowledge of the region's customs.

My point is, you have to fit the employer's requirements and not mold the requirements to fit you. There's no harm in applying to certain positions, but be realistic about which ones you qualify for and actually have a chance getting hired in. Don't rely on just one employer to come through---apply for more than one position.
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thomas_pynchon



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting to hear, what were (are) the primary difficulties in adjusting to work in SA?
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thomas_pynchon wrote:
That's interesting to hear, what were (are) the primary difficulties in adjusting to work in SA?


Manipulative companies

Manipulative students

A system and people that are severely dysfunctional, Saudi Arabia being a welfare state propped up by oil money.

Highways that are dangerous to be on, walk along and cross. I am very serious about this.

Loudspeakers blaring the call to worship 5 times a day, the first as early as 3:45 A.M., followed by everything closing for 30 minutes.

The month of Ramadan where nothing is open during the day, and even though you are not a Muslim they impose their religion on you, which means you can't be seen eating or drinking upon pain of deportation.

Upon the completion of Ramadan, Eid Al Fitr, a two week break. This means you have a total of 6 weeks in one time period of laziness above and beyond the normal laziness found in Saudi Arabia. This results in shortages and the system breaking down even more than it usually is.

Women that are forced to wear black robes and head coverings 'for the protection on their virtue'. Mad Unless you import your wife, you will have no contact with any women except for the occasional "hello", and "does the ATM work"?

There is one flip side. At restaurants, public places and work, you are unlikely to have things stolen except perhaps minor things taken by Saudis out of personal dislike.
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thomas_pynchon



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Loudspeakers blaring the call to worship 5 times a day, the first as early as 3:45 A.M., followed by everything closing for 30 minutes.


That could be a problem...

I was thinking that NS was referring more to classroom management, and I'm assuming this is what AMIDEAST is looking for: teachers who have knowledge of the cultural expectations and who can adjust to more fully engage the students.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thomas_pynchon wrote:
That's interesting to hear, what were (are) the primary difficulties in adjusting to work in SA?

Forget about my experience. How would you answer questions about living and working in KSA? Specifically, what do you know about the culture? In addition, describe some of the language issues Arabic L1s have when learning English.

You should be researching the region and KSA since one of the AMIDEAST job requirements is that the applicant be familiar with the traditions/culture of ultra-conservative Saudi Arabia. Ditto for gaining an understanding of Arabic speakers' linguistic challenges (i.e., language interference).

Frankly, even if you end up signing on with a contracting company, familiarize yourself with the country's culture to lessen the culture shock. However, relying on this forum solely for that type of info won't cut it if you're expecting plenty of unbiased responses. Saudi Arabia isn't everyone's cup of tea.
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