Job Discussion Forums

[MW]

There are many who believe, and express their belief, that after 2008, the Beijing olympics, ESL in China will be on the wane.

Are they aware of the number of new colleges China is planning on building in the next ten years?

Are they aware of how many 3rd tier colleges which can not grant or give B.A. degrees are being upgraded over the next five years?

Are they aware that all colleges and universities have been instructed to prepare for and accept 1/3rd more English majors for the next five years, each and every year?

Are they aware of how many seminars the central government has held and plans to hold to retrain primary and middle school teachers to teach English? (Try reading the manuscript of Y.P. Dong, Ph.D. criticising this)

Are they aware that the central government Ministry of Education limits Chinese English teachers to 9 periods of teaching per week but due to a critical shortage they teach up to 20 periods per week?

Are they aware that the new educational program for the rural areas requires more than 300,000 additional English teachers?

And are they aware of the population growth projections that require even more teachers?

Have they read Hui Du's manuscript about the demographics of current Chinese English teachers and how many will be leaving the system and when?

2008 is important only in the mind of the now deposed former Mayor of Beijing who thought every young person in China needed to learn English because of the olympics and everyone in Beijing needed to learn English so the world would perceive Beijing as a cosmopolitan city.

The Minister of Education and his people make no reference to 2008 in any of their planning documents and they are looking very far forward past 2015.

[Hamish]

[MW]

Modern Foreign Languages Quarterly Vol. 26 No. 1 January 2003

"Are we ready for an early start in foreign language learning? A survey of Primary School English Education in Guangdong Province", Dong Yan-ping

[Roger]

What's this? An exercise in academic wishful thinking? Number-crunching? Since when is the number of expat teachers required to teach English in China directly proportional to the number of Chinese English learners???
With the world's increasing interdependence, the Chinese will eventually realise that they are wasting their resources in a colossal way hiring expats to do "oral English" with primary school, middle school and university students! Most other countries can do without native English speakers, and very well so.
What's more, if expats can't fail Chinese English learners then the Chinese authorities must eventually own up to why they aren't adopting stringent Western-style exams, and if they do own up they will have to face the fact that they have been deluding themselves for the past twenty years!
How many Chinese university students with 6 years or more of English study pass a TOEFL test? No more than 30%! And those who do have to study an extra year to prepare for TOEFL...
For two years, Chinese students have been grumbling that the USA is "discriminating" against them because they cannot secure themselves a study place at an Ivy League university!
The trend these days is to "study" in other countries, including in Europe, even if that means that students have to master another Western language.
For some it is worth the effort because European universities only require a token tuition fee, so parents and students themselves only have to pay for living.

As for demographics, I am not sure there has been a population increase of late. What's become of China's little emperors and empresses? Have they multiplied? Produced their own progeny in defiance of the one-child policy?

[MW]

Roger -

You are so positive in your doom's day predictions regarding the future of ESL in China but time will prove you so very wrong.

Those in the know are expanding their foreign investment in private ESL schools with the complete assistance of their political and financial partners in Beijing.

Only those westerners outside the loop have a doom and gloom attitude toward ESL in China.

There is nothing that ties 2008 to its future, not even the olympics.

Foreign Experts teaching ESL are a definite part of China's futrure for at least the next 20 years.

[noyb]

[gerard]

There does seem to be a large number of Chinese studying French these days. As for English they get a lot of under-qualified teachers here and don't really learn much of anything. It is one thing to be a "cultural ambassador" and another thing to teach something. I think I help the few advanced students but what about the other 600 (6000) . In other countries it is all a money racket but here they are supposed to learn something. The gig may be up soon-whether it is after the Olympics or not. They will re-evaluate the foreign teachers and won't be happy with the results at least in my opinion. They will wonder why they are throwing this hard to come by RMB at "laowais" who are just fooling around and not doing much good.

Just my opinion ladies and gentlemen but I think this business of any "laowai" teaching in a University might soon be over,. Personally I am going to get into the beer business. There seems to be a shortage of bars here. Thinking a dart board and quarts of Tsingtao. Maybe Western food---Tsingtao and french fries just 50 cents!!!!!! Or should I say freedom fries?????

[MW]

Chinese Nationals emigrate to Canada and become naturalized citizens of Canada. Then they return to China to open ESL schools under the foreign investment program. These "western" investors have an inside track on what the future holds for ESL in China. They are in an expansion mode with very heavy investments with most of the financing coming from the CCP.

China, its party leaders and institutions of higher "learning" are investing in the future of ESL in China.

As between a group of Foreign Experts who think they know or can predict what will happen in China and a group who are putting their money into the future of ESL in China; guess which group I tend to believe?

Guangzhou? Get out into the hinterland, the real China and see what is happening at the rural level where Foreign Expert recruiting is only beginning.

[noyb]

Your liberal use of the term "Foreign Expert", which, by the way, is not capitalized, shows you have no grasp whatsoever on any reality.

While native English ESL teachers are labeled foreign experts, they are by far not the only nor most significant group of foreigners in China to hold that distinction.

That said, going to your "hinterland" (Geeze, would any expat really use that term??) would do nothing for China nor for me.

[MW]

NOYB -

Ask yourself: What did my post contribute to the discussion?
Answer: Absolutely nothing!

Once again you have taken a pit bull attack approach which leaves me asking: Is NOYB capable of a substantive communication?

Answer: (Only you know the true answer because you have not given any evidence by which we can judge.)

By "Foreign Experts" I was referring to you and everyone else in this forum who holds a "Foreign Expert Certificate."

"Foreign Expert" is capitalized in every official Chinese Government publication I have read. Possibly that is a sign of misplaced respect?

Do you know that there are currently more than 150,000 "Foreign Experts" teaching ESL in China? And, next year China hopes to increase that number by 25%!

"Hinterland" is the English word used by the Chinese Government in numerous official publications and by many Chinese scholars in journal publications, to refer to the rural areas of China.

Putting your feable attempt at insults aside, what do you think is the future of ESL teaching in China?[/quote]

[noyb]

[Dragon]

Dear noyb,
I beg you t listen to Comrade MW. Do not attack him or her, for the insightful comments he or she makes will make us all better ESL Industry teachers in China. Comrade MW has made several great postings on this forum and with hope he or she will continue to do so. I eagerly await Comrade MW's postings. Please refrain from attacking Comrade MW
DRAGON

[arioch36]

NYOB, it is my duty to inform you that you could best serve the motherland by serving for a period in our hinterland. Oh help...it's too much. Where are EGAS and Syndrome, so I can laugh hard enough to have a technicolor yawn! My students say I should lose weight 9And that when I was younger I was quite handsome)

[noyb]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

You're right, Arioch, what this situation calls for is very precise, albeit sarcastic, use of our native language.

However, for the sake of national unity, I will bury myself today in the new Lord of the Rings movie and struggle like heck to keep my sarcastic impulses from racing on down to my fingertips.

Over and out, Comrades Dragon & MW.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!