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Hatcher
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 602
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 Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:51 pm Post subject: Who is legally permitted to work PT? |
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I see lots of PT jobs available but it seems as though it is illegal for every visa.
Which visas are allowed to work PT?
Is there no punishment for the training center or kindy if they are caught with PTers or the wrong visas? |
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Piper2
Joined: 13 Jun 2014
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Who is legally permitted to work PT? |
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| Hatcher wrote: |
I see lots of PT jobs available but it seems as though it is illegal for every visa.
Which visas are allowed to work PT?
Is there no punishment for the training center or kindy if they are caught with PTers or the wrong visas? |
TIC, things are not black or white, and you never really know where on that continuum from white to black you will end up. So you should decide what level of risk you are comfortable with and try to jump in at that point on the line. Though there are no guarantees that is what you will get.
That said, I will answer your questions...
According to that Lawandboarder blog you can only work for the company that sponsors your z-visa. Meaning P/T work (as in side jobs) are not allowed. It even says that if your employer gives you permission to work for a different company it is still illegal.
Your contract may state that you are permitted to work for a 3rd Party as long as Party A gives you permission.
Or, though not stated in your contract -or even if clearly stated that you are not allowed to work for another school- your employer may (verbally) make it clear that it will turn a blind eye to side work you choose to do provided it does not interfere with your main job.
Many FTs do what they want and get away it.
Some FTs do what they want and do not get away with it. Consequences can range from a telling off to prison and deportation.
FTs who abide by Chinese laws and regulations (and personally ensure they are employed legally) are far less likely to have issues with the authorities.
The impression I have is that schools tend to get away with just a slap on the wrist when they break the rules. If this impression is correct, this could be for various reasons including because bribes are offered or the authorities prefer to take a harder line with foreigners.
Are you coming to China to live on the wild side? Are you a gambler? Do you feel lucky? Then do what you want. Many do and have the time of their lives.
Does your spirit of adventure not involve breaking the law? Then get employed legally, and take the time to experience the wonders that China has to offer. |
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coldcucumber
Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Who is legally permitted to work PT? |
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| Piper2 wrote: |
| Hatcher wrote: |
I see lots of PT jobs available but it seems as though it is illegal for every visa.
Which visas are allowed to work PT?
Is there no punishment for the training center or kindy if they are caught with PTers or the wrong visas? |
TIC, things are not black or white, and you never really know where on that continuum from white to black you will end up. So you should decide what level of risk you are comfortable with and try to jump in at that point on the line. Though there are no guarantees that is what you will get.
That said, I will answer your questions...
According to that Lawandboarder blog you can only work for the company that sponsors your z-visa. Meaning P/T work (as in side jobs) are not allowed. It even says that if your employer gives you permission to work for a different company it is still illegal.
Your contract may state that you are permitted to work for a 3rd Party as long as Party A gives you permission.
Or, though not stated in your contract -or even if clearly stated that you are not allowed to work for another school- your employer may (verbally) make it clear that it will turn a blind eye to side work you choose to do provided it does not interfere with your main job.
Many FTs do what they want and get away it.
Some FTs do what they want and do not get away with it. Consequences can range from a telling off to prison and deportation.
FTs who abide by Chinese laws and regulations (and personally ensure they are employed legally) are far less likely to have issues with the authorities.
The impression I have is that schools tend to get away with just a slap on the wrist when they break the rules. If this impression is correct, this could be for various reasons including because bribes are offered or the authorities prefer to take a harder line with foreigners.
Are you coming to China to live on the wild side? Are you a gambler? Do you feel lucky? Then do what you want. Many do and have the time of their lives.
Does your spirit of adventure not involve breaking the law? Then get employed legally, and take the time to experience the wonders that China has to offer. |
Quite a bit glum there, aren't we?
Teaching at another school CAN be dangerous, but this depends on the city that you're in.
It's much easier and much safer to do privates, that way you aren't working for another school. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:33 am Post subject: |
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I agree.
Applying for an advertised PT position is a bit obvious.
There's plenty of informal arrangements. Just drift in to any language school you see downtown - other than the chains - and talk to the supervisor.
I prefer language schools to privates as generally you get paid even if half the class don't show. Also you can refine the commute over time. |
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Azile
Joined: 31 Oct 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Huadu, Guangzhou, Guangdong, China
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Nobody who is in China as a Foreigner is allowed to work anywhere except the company/school who has obtained your official Residence Permit, FEC and work permit. To work for anyone else is illegal. It does not matter if your school gives you permission. You are legally only allowed to work for them.
The only Foriegner who is going to have this ability is one who has successfully applied for a Foreign Residency Card. If you have this, then you no longer need a visa or residence permit to live and work in China. Obtaining one of these cards is difficult and typicallly requires you to reside in China for 5 years, never being out of the country each year for 180 days in any of those years.
The two most common cases that Foreigners have obtained this card is to have lived and worked in China for 5 years. Even then, it can get denied. The second way is to be married to a Chinese national for 5 years and also lived in China for 5 years. Almost always granted in that case. The 99% for sure way is to be married to a Chinese national for 5 years, lived here for 5 years, worked legally on Z status for 5 years and have had a child who is a Chinese national during the 5 year period.
Note this is not the elusive "Chinese National Status" that a handful of Foreigners have ever received. That would be for those who have actually renounced their residency of their own country and have decided to immigrate permanently to China. Almost impossible to get and really has zero benefit.
If you do get the Residency Card, keep in mind you will also be filing taxes with the Chinese government each year, including global earnings. |
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Piper2
Joined: 13 Jun 2014
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| coldcucumber wrote: |
Quite a bit glum there, aren't we?
Teaching at another school CAN be dangerous, but this depends on the city that you're in.
It's much easier and much safer to do privates, that way you aren't working for another school. |
OP was asking about legalities. Working PT/having a side job is illegal. Was I supposed to sugarcoat that  ? I was going for realistic. I did say many FTs do it, get away with it, and have a great time. Though I also mentioned what could happen if you are caught. I did recommend doing what -or taking the risks- you are comfortable with. How do you get "glum" as the main impression my post gave you ? There are plenty of positives in there... |
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Piper2
Joined: 13 Jun 2014
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Azile wrote: |
Nobody who is in China as a Foreigner is allowed to work anywhere except the company/school who has obtained your official Residence Permit, FEC and work permit. To work for anyone else is illegal. It does not matter if your school gives you permission. You are legally only allowed to work for them.
The only Foriegner who is going to have this ability is one who has successfully applied for a Foreign Residency Card. If you have this, then you no longer need a visa or residence permit to live and work in China. Obtaining one of these cards is difficult and typicallly requires you to reside in China for 5 years, never being out of the country each year for 180 days in any of those years.
The two most common cases that Foreigners have obtained this card is to have lived and worked in China for 5 years. Even then, it can get denied. The second way is to be married to a Chinese national for 5 years and also lived in China for 5 years. Almost always granted in that case. The 99% for sure way is to be married to a Chinese national for 5 years, lived here for 5 years, worked legally on Z status for 5 years and have had a child who is a Chinese national during the 5 year period.
Note this is not the elusive "Chinese National Status" that a handful of Foreigners have ever received. That would be for those who have actually renounced their residency of their own country and have decided to immigrate permanently to China. Almost impossible to get and really has zero benefit.
If you do get the Residency Card, keep in mind you will also be filing taxes with the Chinese government each year, including global earnings. |
Yes permanent residence, I considered mentioning it in my post but then thought there was little point. Though relevant to the OP, it is largely not relevant to the vast majority of the readers (is my guess) as almost all of us would have RPs or visas (again my guess).
Still, good to know what our options are if we stick it out long enough
Out of curiosity, would any of you seriously consider getting the Residency Card?
What are the benefits? Aside from being able to legally work more than one job? EDIT: Plus allowing you to live in China permanently, of course! But only if you continue to have enough money in a Chinese bank?
I can see a few drawbacks...
-definitely paying more tax because the 2nd or more job/s would be known to the tax bureau
-Would it scare schools off? Would FAOs know how to deal with the paperwork? Would it need a different type of contract? Would the FT have (more) rights, that could be enforced?
-What about if future employers, government departments, etc in other countries learned you had a residency card while you lived in China? Right now I do not see why it should make a difference to anyone, but then again I do not know what an employer or a government department in another country will be thinking in 10, 20, 30 years time.
Last edited by Piper2 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Capt Lugwash
Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Posts: 346
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| I would. I would be quite happy to spend the rest of my days in China. |
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Hatcher
Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 602
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for the replies.
My next question - since it is illegal, doesnt the PSB see the ads online and raid the centers?
Assuming yes, doesnt the center pay a fine? |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Stay forever in China?
Well my lungs are screaming at me with every breath now - imagine prolonging their torture. |
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drjtrekker
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:21 am Post subject: |
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OP,
ILLEGAL, like they all said...but, TIC.
Just watch ur ass...be smart, and fly below the radar.
And/or just carry a big stick wth an attitude.
KEPT me out of trouble for the last many years...and I am a big pain in the ASS.
I do the same now, i.e. part time work.
Had the local PSB give me a warning.
I told them when they come arrest me, I will have a drink with them but I ain't gonna listen to their b.s. And I told him that.
They are all soooo full of it.
It is STILL about corruption and getting paid off.
Yeah, I am bitter, but not really...I know how this place works.
BUT, some places are easier to get away with sh-t than others.
Farther away from the KING, the easier it is...me thinks, u know?!?! |
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Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 404
Location: GZ
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| drjtrekker wrote: |
OP,
ILLEGAL, like they all said...but, TIC.
Just watch ur ass...be smart, and fly below the radar.
And/or just carry a big stick wth an attitude.
KEPT me out of trouble for the last many years...and I am a big pain in the ASS.
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The first bit of advice here is good- fly under the radar. Be discreet.
The second bit of advice is terrible- carry a big stick with an attitude? Be a pain in the ass? This is a sure-fire way to make enemies and get yourself in trouble, and end up bitter (as he did).
The Chinese tend to be passive-aggressive rather than confrontational. A call to the PSB about side-work is FAR MORE LIKELY if you are offending people left and right, especially your employer! (And most likely not even realizing you are doing it.)
If you are a good person, have a good relationship with those above you, are professional in the workplace, and not attracting attention to yourself via nightlife antics (drunken, disorderly, or blatantly hitting on every female in sight, etc.), your chances of having problems for teaching privates drops to almost zero. For the most part, no one cares if you teach on the side. They ONLY care when they want to get back at you.
At every job I've had in China (universities), my BOSS has approached me with work on the side, outside the school. |
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Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 404
Location: GZ
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Hatcher wrote: |
Thank you for the replies.
My next question - since it is illegal, doesnt the PSB see the ads online and raid the centers?
Assuming yes, doesnt the center pay a fine? |
Doubtful anyone at the PSB knows much English. If they do, they are not scouring the internet looking for such ads. They only get off their asses when they are tipped off by someone (usually the competition of the center posting the ads), or more likely they are bribed to do so.
As others have said, teaching privates or working for someone you have a relationship with is much safer than working for a center posting online. IMO, if the only way you can find extra work is by contacting strangers on the internet, you probably aren't a very good teacher. Most teachers get unsolicited job offers.
I personally don't do privates anymore, because scrambling for a few extra bucks is not worth it for me. I have been here 6 years, worked in 3 provinces, known 100's of teachers who are doing privates or work at centers on the side. I have NEVER heard of any qualified teachers actually getting in trouble for this, except on the internets. I do know of a few illegal teachers at Hampson, whose first languauge was not English and no degrees, getting deported (without jail time), but it had nothing to do with illegal side work. My experience is anecdotal, for sure. I'm sure people have gotten in trouble for it somewhere. But i'm not buying the "crackdown" talk that is all over these boards. I don't think there is a very concerted effort by the PSB to go after this "problem." But maybe I'm all wet. |
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drjtrekker
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I agree with Simon, don't be a PAIN like me...
But it HAS gotten me out of crap, and has gotten done, such as dealing with our house manager or school management...so take it for what it's worth.
And I'm not really bitter...just drinkin the whiskey yesterday and felt like speaking freeeeely for fun..and hopefully giving some decent advice.
Like Simon, I have been here many years as well.
anyhoo, just my two more Jiao, blah blah...its all good...I do like this place, even with the constant internet woes. |
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