Job Discussion Forums

[The_Kong]

[Capt Lugwash]

I did not intend to start arguments, the only reason I posed the question was because someone stated as fact a degree was required by law yet failed to provide official evidence.

Considering you can obtain a BA in golf for instance, it seems absurd to me to assume one can teach by virtue of having one. My interpretation of what I assume is "preferred" is proof of a certain level of education. This may or may not take the form of a degree, as in my case.

No, I don't consider myself any more or less educated than other members here. No, I am not in fear of my job for another year - although it is true that the time is rapidly approaching when I may have to find a more age-friendly school (sadly).

And no, I have no doubts at all that my school submitted anything other than those qualifications I presented to them.

I wasn't Mr Chips from day one but I wasn't exactly clueless either. I did exactly what all of you must have done when you first started - I learnt from colleagues and much, much more from the students themselves.

It does however annoy me to read things wherein a "fact" or "law" is cited yet nothing is provided to substantiate the claims. Hence my query.

[likwid_777]

It seems there is a variable formula of:

-What qualifications you have (real or not)
-How much the employer likes you/wants to hire you
-How much guanxi they have, and wish to use for gaining you as an employee (if your qualifications are not adequate for legal hiring, and they like you)
-How tough the local provincial authorities are (which again relates to how much guanxi the employer has, but from reports is nigh impossible in the big smoke towns such as Beijing and Shanghai)

As these are all variables, and the authorities are very "provincial", you'll never know. You will just have to apply and see. I'd hazard a guess that, due to your years of experience, some schools would probably be happy to crank out a favour or two for you.

Do you think schools will report you to the PSB for not having a degree and applying for a job? I doubt it. Maaaybe if you abuse them for not hiring you. But you wouldn't do that.

[Capt Lugwash]

Not likely. I have no fear of my door being knocked on during the night for any fraudulent claims they may think I made because as I said before, I disclosed my very real qualifications which in no way, shape or form claim to be a degree.

The local police see me every year when I go to get my RP and FEC renewed and most years we all break bread together later.

My own thought on the matter is that a degree is not required other than by individual schools in much the same way as some place age restrictions. Shifting sands.

[naturegirl321]

What about being a native speaker?

[Capt Lugwash]

I am.

[The_Kong]

[Chinahere]

A lot of non-native speakers work in reputable and decent schools and universities LEGALLY. I, for one and been here for a decade now.

[The_Kong]

[Chinahere]

Good to know.

[vikeologist]

The things that Kong originally posted (degree, qual, exp) are (almost) the law for foreign experts, but laws in China aren't always adhered to 100%.

Actually the TEFL cert isn't a legal requirement per se, but then again, if a prospective teacher doesn't have it, you could understand why the powers that be might baulk at issuing a FEC.

I'm not trying to further this ridiculous argument. Kong had it right. Whether something is technically the law or not makes no difference to the accuracy of his information.

The key thing is that if you get a teaching job (and FEC) without a degree, technically that's against the law, and that's not a safe position to be in in China.

[doogsville]

More and more I'm starting to think of the the 'law' in China as a rug. While it's there, under your feet, it keeps you safe and warm, offering grip and insulation against the cold, hard floor beneath you. However, since you're not a native Chinese member of the Communist Party it can be pulled out from under you at any moment. This would have the effect of bringing you quickly and sharply into contact with that nasty, cold, hard floor. This contact could leave you permanently damaged, or at the very least, transported back to the land from whence you came.

We can debate what is law, and what are guidelines, and what can and cannot be achieved by the liberal application of guanxi here on this board until the cows come home. The harsh reality of all or our lives here in China is that we are strangers in a strange land, at the mercy of forces and people over whom we have no control whatsoever. No matter how many and who's opinions we seek to try to reassure ourselves that we are safe here and can continue to work and play as we please, we are not.

At best we can live our lives day to day, and if we are wise we will have enough cash tucked away to turn our rug into a magic carpet that will whisk us away to a land in which we have at least the illusion of safety and security.

Goodnight and sweet dreams.

[Chinahere]

Well said. Realistically articulated.

[Azile]

It has already been stated that what is a rule in one area might not apply in another or some fao has the necessary relationship to get you your permit and FEC no matter what your certificates and such.

Here in Guangdong at the university level it always is "No BA = No FEC = No Job". Experience and tefl seems to matter very little to them however.

[The_Kong]