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John Browne
Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:02 pm Post subject: McGill / Jubail - Is it really all that bad? |
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A friend was just offered an ELT job thru McGill to work in Jubail with the college there, in the program that some people on this forum thought had been closed down. But it appears to be alive and well. I was considering applying at some point too, as the offer looks good on paper.
But then he had a look at some of the posts here and started having second thoughts. In particular, this topic from June 2013: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=102292&highlight=mcgill
Ouch. And there are some other negative posts too.
He's also read some bad things about working on a Business Visa, which his would be, and despite the fact that it was proposed as a more positive solution than a normal Work Visa, i.e. you could enter and return to the KSA as often as you wanted. But there are some people who report having problems on the financial side with the Business Visa, e.g. getting taxed, having more trouble sending the money out of the country, etc.
Accommodation seems to be a sore point too. He was told it would be a "Western style suite" apartment, fully furnished, with kitchen, etc. He asked if it would be alone or shared, but he hasn't heard from McGill on that specifically. From what people have said here, it's shared. And in some cases no more than a university dorm room.
Bit of a letdown to say the least. Anyway, the job start date has been pushed back and now appears to be around late September, for 9.5 months. It seems the job's terms and conditions are the same as in the past, re. salary, paid holidays, medical, flight, etc.
Really a surprise to see all the negatives, given McGill's reputation as a top notch university. |
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The Fifth Column
Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 331
Location: His habitude with lexical items protrudes not unlike a damaged pollex!!!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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McGill U. has a great rep in Canada.
On the the other hand, Brown U. has a great rep in the US. McGill was bought by by JUC & Brown was bought by KFS...
Saudi petro-dollars have bought the US government...the more things change, the more they stay the same... |
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John Browne
Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: McGill / Jubail |
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Better KFS than KFC, I guess.
Any experience, good or bad, teaching in the Jubail IELT project?
Just find it interesting, and disconcerting, that a prestigious university can lend its name and be a key part of a program that some people liken to many of the cheaper, assembly-line type private EFL schools you find in every corner of the globe: not adhering to contract terms, cheaping out on certain conditions (especially accommodation), shady work permits/visas, leaving teachers on their own to flounder in the country's murky bureacratic waters, cutting corners in general, depressing unprofessional workplace, etc. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Seems your friend is hoping to see a couple of posts describing good experiences about the McGill-Jubail project, which would perhaps 'cancel out' all the bad reviews he's been reading. |
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The Fifth Column
Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 331
Location: His habitude with lexical items protrudes not unlike a damaged pollex!!!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Tell your "friend" to look elsewhere...the same laws that apply in the West don't in the Great Sandbox!
Western unis are more than willing to sell their names to fill their coffers... |
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John Browne
Joined: 23 Aug 2014
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Seems your friend is hoping to see a couple of posts describing good experiences about the McGill-Jubail project, which would perhaps 'cancel out' all the bad reviews he's been reading. |
"Cancel out", not necessarily. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, as one person's experience is often different from another's. And as we know, it's human nature to post more readily about a terrible experience that really turned you off, than to take the time to sit down and write about a good - or at least decent - experience. It isn't so much about living in the KSA, as the culture shock and differences and trials and tribulations are well known. It's about working conditions in and treatment by this one particular institution, independently of the country, I guess. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| John Browne wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Seems your friend is hoping to see a couple of posts describing good experiences about the McGill-Jubail project, which would perhaps 'cancel out' all the bad reviews he's been reading. |
"Cancel out", not necessarily. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, as one person's experience is often different from another's. And as we know, it's human nature to post more readily about a terrible experience that really turned you off, than to take the time to sit down and write about a good - or at least decent - experience. |
However, as you went through the various threads on McGill, going back a couple of years, I suspect you were hard pressed to find other posters challenging or discounting the negative comments, which is why you're asking now. That should say something about the place. You also should let go of the idea of "prestige"; the people running this and similar programs are predominantly Saudis and not Canadians, Americans, etc. |
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MixtecaMike
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 643
Location: Guatebad
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| That should say something about the place. You also should let go of the idea of "prestige"; the people running this and similar programs are predominantly Saudis and not Canadians, Americans, etc. |
Disclaimer: I do not work for "the program".
I must speak in defense of "the place," I like Jubail and enjoy working at JIC. Jubail is a pleasant smallish city, with ever-growing facilities, especially for shopping. There are beaches and parks, lots of greenery. The pollution is almost never a serious issue, as most of it blows away from the college and residential areas. Nearly all the JIC staff at the ELC and SPU are friendly, although almost none of the McGill people (from the previous round) interacted much with us. Those that did seemed happy with their pay, so that is a plus for anyone considering the program. I even suggested a friend apply, however that was just before their contract was cancelled or suspended, or whatever happened, so he didn't get in. |
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:35 am Post subject: Re: McGill / Jubail - Is it really all that bad? |
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| John Browne wrote: |
| He's also read some bad things about working on a Business Visa, which his would be, and despite the fact that it was proposed as a more positive solution than a normal Work Visa, i.e. you could enter and return to the KSA as often as you wanted. But there are some people who report having problems on the financial side with the Business Visa, e.g. getting taxed, having more trouble sending the money out of the country, etc. |
Not to mention potentially spending time behind bars and then getting deported... |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| MixtecaMike wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| That should say something about the place. You also should let go of the idea of "prestige"; the people running this and similar programs are predominantly Saudis and not Canadians, Americans, etc. |
Disclaimer: I do not work for "the program".
I must speak in defense of "the place," I like Jubail and enjoy working at JIC. Jubail is a pleasant smallish city, with ever-growing facilities, especially for shopping. There are beaches and parks, lots of greenery. The pollution is almost never a serious issue, as most of it blows away from the college and residential areas... |
By "place," I was referring to McGill, the workplace, and not the industrial city of Jubail. |
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coder
Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Posts: 94
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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delete
Last edited by coder on Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:43 am; edited 2 times in total |
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The Fifth Column
Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 331
Location: His habitude with lexical items protrudes not unlike a damaged pollex!!!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Bonne chance.
Ditto... |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| coder wrote: |
| The straw that should have broken the camel's back, however, is the revelation that they will provide a "business" visa and not a "work" visa. |
EXACTLY!! That immediately trumps any supposed connection to a decent university somewhere in the "West." From my readings on the board, that immediately tells me that it is a job that should only be considered by the desperate who can't get any other offers because of timing or credentials or employment history.
With the current pressure to remove illegal workers from the country (and yes, it does make you an illegal worker). Thousands of workers have been deported over the last couple years. It might never be enforced against teachers... or they might start the week after arrival. No one knows the answer to that one.
There is only ONE positive to this type of visa. If the job is total crap, you can just go to the airport and leave... assuming that you have managed to keep your passport.
VS |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Would you encourage a foreigner to go the the US on a tourist visa and work ? Why do the same with KSA ? Working on a business visa in KSA is ILLEGAL. Have you SEEN the inside of a Saudi slammer ? |
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The Fifth Column
Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 331
Location: His habitude with lexical items protrudes not unlike a damaged pollex!!!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| Would you encourage a foreigner to go the the US on a tourist visa and work ? Why do the same with KSA ? Working on a business visa in KSA is ILLEGAL. Have you SEEN the inside of a Saudi slammer ? |
Would you encourage a foreigner to go the UK on a bona-fide visa and work ?
Well, no. Friends don't let friends go to the UK.
Have you SEEN the weather there???  |
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