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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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 Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:32 am Post subject: |
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* Contract employees are not required to perform any task that is not specifically defined in their written job description.
* No company can hold nor detain the passport nor identification papers of any employee.
* No employee is allowed to work for any company that evades payment of any taxes in China at the municipal, provincial, and/or central levels.
I have news for you, Wo Ding. This is part and parcel of life in many public Chinese universities.
Contracts are often vague in their description of courses to be taught. It's a problem only for the uneducated.
Sometimes, it may take over a month for the PSB to return one's passport after application for a residence permit (though it hasn't taken that long in recent years).
My public university has NEVER remitted taxes for me, the upshot of which is that it is difficult for me to send money home or to convert it to USD without the help of a Chinese friend. This may not be universal, but this has been my experience so far.
Why are you posting this again? |
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coldcucumber
Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:07 am Post subject: Re: No Penalty Bail Out From A Bad Or Abusive China Teaching |
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| Wo Dong wrote: |
After I was advised by my labor lawyer father-in-law (JD from Renmin University Law School) that most all of the contracts signed by China foreign teachers are probably illegal (unless your employer use the standard unmodified SAFEA contract template) I did a little digging and spent another afternoon yesterday picking the brains of my FIL.
He agreed to help any China Foreign Teacher who needs out of a really exploitive or abusive job for a flat fee of 10,000 yuan IF and only If you contract violates Chinese labor laws in on of the following ways...
* No employee can be compelled to work unpaid overtime hours
* All employees must be provided a written job description of their position when hired
* Foreign employees must be provided invitation and release letters (free of charge)
* Foreign employees can only be hired by properly registered and licensed companies with a minimum registered capital of 3 million rmb.
* Internships may not exceed 90 consecutive days and unpaid internships are prohibited.
* Probationary periods cannot exceed one month for every year of contracted employment
* Contract employees are not required to perform any task that is not specifically defined in their written job description.
* No company can hold nor detain the passport nor identification papers of any employee.
* No employee is allowed to work for any company that evades payment of any taxes in China at the municipal, provincial, and/or central levels.
Unfortunately China does not yet allow "pro-se" pleadings where you can represent yourself in court, but my FIL is working on a form letter that you can use with your employer that can facilitated you escape without worrying about losing your visa, loss of pay, or getting deported or blacklisted. Stay tuned and I will keep you posted.[/i] |
Why exactly are you spamming the boards again, obviously a sock puppet.
While somethings you post are true, you're not helping anyone's situation by acting and posting as you are.....,. |
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Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 404
Location: GZ
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: No Penalty Bail Out From A Bad Or Abusive China Teaching |
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| coldcucumber wrote: |
| Wo Dong wrote: |
After I was advised by my labor lawyer father-in-law (JD from Renmin University Law School) that most all of the contracts signed by China foreign teachers are probably illegal (unless your employer use the standard unmodified SAFEA contract template) I did a little digging and spent another afternoon yesterday picking the brains of my FIL.
He agreed to help any China Foreign Teacher who needs out of a really exploitive or abusive job for a flat fee of 10,000 yuan IF and only If you contract violates Chinese labor laws in on of the following ways...
* No employee can be compelled to work unpaid overtime hours
* All employees must be provided a written job description of their position when hired
* Foreign employees must be provided invitation and release letters (free of charge)
* Foreign employees can only be hired by properly registered and licensed companies with a minimum registered capital of 3 million rmb.
* Internships may not exceed 90 consecutive days and unpaid internships are prohibited.
* Probationary periods cannot exceed one month for every year of contracted employment
* Contract employees are not required to perform any task that is not specifically defined in their written job description.
* No company can hold nor detain the passport nor identification papers of any employee.
* No employee is allowed to work for any company that evades payment of any taxes in China at the municipal, provincial, and/or central levels.
Unfortunately China does not yet allow "pro-se" pleadings where you can represent yourself in court, but my FIL is working on a form letter that you can use with your employer that can facilitated you escape without worrying about losing your visa, loss of pay, or getting deported or blacklisted. Stay tuned and I will keep you posted.[/i] |
Why exactly are you spamming the boards again, obviously a sock puppet.
While somethings you post are true, you're not helping anyone's situation by acting and posting as you are.....,. |
Why is he spamming? With the hopes some sucker will send him a flat fee of 10,000 rmb!!! |
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Wo Dong
Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
* Contract employees are not required to perform any task that is not specifically defined in their written job description.
* No company can hold nor detain the passport nor identification papers of any employee.
* No employee is allowed to work for any company that evades payment of any taxes in China at the municipal, provincial, and/or central levels.
I have news for you, Wo Ding. This is part and parcel of life in many public Chinese universities.
Contracts are often vague in their description of courses to be taught. It's a problem only for the uneducated.
Sometimes, it may take over a month for the PSB to return one's passport after application for a residence permit (though it hasn't taken that long in recent years).
My public university has NEVER remitted taxes for me, the upshot of which is that it is difficult for me to send money home or to convert it to USD without the help of a Chinese friend. This may not be universal, but this has been my experience so far.
Why are you posting this again? |
I never said the PSB can't hold your passport. YOU are the one who brought in the red herring here sir. Again, whether a school or university chooses to follow or break the law is not relative to your legal rights as an employee and YOUR choice whether to use the law as leverage to escape a bad contract. |
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Wo Dong
Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: No Penalty Bail Out From A Bad Or Abusive China Teaching |
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| Simon in Suzhou wrote: |
| coldcucumber wrote: |
| Wo Dong wrote: |
After I was advised by my labor lawyer father-in-law (JD from Renmin University Law School) that most all of the contracts signed by China foreign teachers are probably illegal (unless your employer use the standard unmodified SAFEA contract template) I did a little digging and spent another afternoon yesterday picking the brains of my FIL.
He agreed to help any China Foreign Teacher who needs out of a really exploitive or abusive job for a flat fee of 10,000 yuan IF and only If you contract violates Chinese labor laws in on of the following ways...
* No employee can be compelled to work unpaid overtime hours
* All employees must be provided a written job description of their position when hired
* Foreign employees must be provided invitation and release letters (free of charge)
* Foreign employees can only be hired by properly registered and licensed companies with a minimum registered capital of 3 million rmb.
* Internships may not exceed 90 consecutive days and unpaid internships are prohibited.
* Probationary periods cannot exceed one month for every year of contracted employment
* Contract employees are not required to perform any task that is not specifically defined in their written job description.
* No company can hold nor detain the passport nor identification papers of any employee.
* No employee is allowed to work for any company that evades payment of any taxes in China at the municipal, provincial, and/or central levels.
Unfortunately China does not yet allow "pro-se" pleadings where you can represent yourself in court, but my FIL is working on a form letter that you can use with your employer that can facilitated you escape without worrying about losing your visa, loss of pay, or getting deported or blacklisted. Stay tuned and I will keep you posted.[/i] |
Why exactly are you spamming the boards again, obviously a sock puppet.
While somethings you post are true, you're not helping anyone's situation by acting and posting as you are.....,. |
Why is he spamming? With the hopes some sucker will send him a flat fee of 10,000 rmb!!! |
3 posts on a subject is hardly spamming sir. And contrary to your suggestion, I am not asking anyone for money. If any teaching colleague finds themselves trapped in a bad contract, I will introduce them to my FIL who is a registered attorney with a very large and respected law firm and they can deal with him directly - not me. Lastly, maybe YOU are content as a pig in shit with your teaching gig, but I hear a lot of discontent in my Beijing circle of teachers and contracts that suck are often the center of debate, or rather how even the bad contracts are not even honored. |
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Capt Lugwash
Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Posts: 346
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| You should pass on the details of the practice to the CFTU. I am certain they would be more than happy to stump up such a small sum to assist a poor foreign teacher ensnared in an illegal and ergo, not binding. contract. |
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Wo Dong
Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Capt Lugwash wrote: |
| You should pass on the details of the practice to the CFTU. I am certain they would be more than happy to stump up such a small sum to assist a poor foreign teacher ensnared in an illegal and ergo, not binding. contract. |
Since you are the first to mention the CFTU (I am focused on the labor laws of China) you can tackle that assignment. |
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Capt Lugwash
Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Posts: 346
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| They won't talk to me. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Wo Dong wrote: |
| Bud Powell wrote: |
* Contract employees are not required to perform any task that is not specifically defined in their written job description.
* No company can hold nor detain the passport nor identification papers of any employee.
* No employee is allowed to work for any company that evades payment of any taxes in China at the municipal, provincial, and/or central levels.
I have news for you, Wo Ding. This is part and parcel of life in many public Chinese universities.
Contracts are often vague in their description of courses to be taught. It's a problem only for the uneducated.
Sometimes, it may take over a month for the PSB to return one's passport after application for a residence permit (though it hasn't taken that long in recent years).
My public university has NEVER remitted taxes for me, the upshot of which is that it is difficult for me to send money home or to convert it to USD without the help of a Chinese friend. This may not be universal, but this has been my experience so far.
Why are you posting this again? |
I never said the PSB can't hold your passport. YOU are the one who brought in the red herring here sir. Again, whether a school or university chooses to follow or break the law is not relative to your legal rights as an employee and YOUR choice whether to use the law as leverage to escape a bad contract. |
Company, entity, body all the same. Your spam in the past has been all-inclusive. My comment is not intended to be to be a red herring at all. (Knowledge of deductive logic would inform you that my mention isn't really a red herring). My point is that your posts are repetitious, unnecessary, and irritating.
Your posts are bona fide spam, a pitch for you father-in-law who is a lawyer.
Shouldn't someone press the ejection button at this point? |
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Wo Dong
Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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sorry - duplicate post.
Last edited by Wo Dong on Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wo Dong
Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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duplicate post - sorry (problems with uploading I suppose)
Last edited by Wo Dong on Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wo Dong
Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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I beg to differ as most intelligent people would differentiate between a company (private or public) and a government agency or bureau - and understand the relationship between them that is often dubious or collusive, sometimes, precarious, and usually awkward.
I am not spamming anything since I have nothing to sell. People are welcome to use whichever lawyer(s) they choose, but I pointed out the fact that my FIL is a specialist in China Labor laws who unlike most others, does not require an hourly fee. I posted no contact details for him nor any links to his law firm. He formerly taught Labor Law as a professor at Renmin University which I think is a good indication he might know what he is talking about yes?
I still am puzzled by the fact you would be upset that I made an effort to help fellow teachers escape miserable or unfair work environments. Some might think that the only people who would be upset about helping others break free from illegal contracts are the agents who don't get paid until the 90 day probationary period is completed. By any chance, do you do some recruiting on the side Bud? And no, I do not deny anyone their right to moonlight and make a few extra dollars. But I did find these links of another user that you also suggested should be banned.
http://www.eslwatch.info/china-2/scams-or-schemes-in-china/12147-beware-of-agents-recruiters-masquerading-as-esl-tefl-teachers-at-expat-esl-tefl-forums.html
http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2014/04/12/too-many-agents-recruiters-now-posting-teachers-expat-forums
http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/t-3125
http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6523
Last but not least, every teacher and other employee working in China needs every tool and weapon possible to fight employer abuse, which thankfully is on the decline, but still poses concerns that need to be noted.
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=617682 |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Sticky: "...This forum is not any one member's personal playground..." |
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Wo Dong
Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
| Sticky: "...This forum is not any one member's personal playground..." |
Again I agree with you Bud, but by the same token, just because you have been posting here for years does not negate the rights of newbies to disagree with you. I agree with 80% of your posts, but when I disagree, I do not expect to be greeted with insults and hostility.
In reading some of your old 2012 and 2013 posts, you yourself chastised people for "attacking the messenger" instead of the message - remember? Please extend that courtesy to me as well Bud.
And although I realize you may have discussed some topics dozens of times, I have not and since the sticky thread on contracts in China have been LOCKED for 8 Years, I am trying to bring others up to speed on new changes in the laws that help them, since I am getting the info directly from a veteran labor lawyer in China who was a law professor for five years at Renmin University - the premier law school of Asia. |
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3701 W.119th
Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 386
Location: Central China
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| *yawn* |
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