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The_Kong
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 349
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 Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Wo Dong wrote: |
| Funny that you care more about the source of the information than the information itself |
Wait a second...do you not care about where your information comes from?
You do understand that would be extremely foolish, right?
For example if I were reading two studies, one published by a tobacco company funded research group saying there is no link between smoking and lung cancer, and another report published by a non-biased source, an intelligent person would give more weight to the non-biased source.
| Wo Dong wrote: |
| - which according to the U.S. embassy, the SAFEA Beijing office, and the Canadian consulate is absolutely correct. |
Your mixing issues. The embassy websites do have a lot of useful information. Be careful, use common sense, have enough money to leave the country if you fell for a scam, etc.
The other dozen websites have a lot of inflammatory and wayyyyy overgeneralized comments and are clearly written by the same people.
A blog post and an embassy website don't carry the same weight. And a group creating 8 different blog posts and linking them all to each other supports absolutely nothing.
| Wo Dong wrote: |
| By any chance are you no longer in China Mr. Kong? That might explain why you are not up to speed on this stuff. |
I am in China, and as I've told you before I do in fact handle the applications for foreign expert certificates and letter of invitation for our new teachers (I'm not a recruiter, I do the hiring for my school alone).
I'm the sole person responsible for everything from interviewing, collecting/translating documents, submitting everything to the local PSB/provincial government, mailing out the documents, guiding teachers through the visa application process in their home country, and then once they arrive taking them to do the medical and submitting everything to get a temporary residence permit.
| Wo Dong wrote: |
| Anyone who doubts what is is said in this article about current 2014 China foreign teacher requirements can go to the other links below for third party verification. I don't think that the U.S. embassy nor SAFEA are in the business of misleading people about basic, standard, and legal employment standards. |
The problem is, as I've mentioned below, that most of the links you've posted are open blogs where any can post anything, and they all link to each other, making such information dubious at best.
| Wo Dong wrote: |
| I have been made well-aware by other user PMs that many people on this forum are in fact sales reps for various TEFL, TESOL, and CELTA training programs which is cool with me so long as you do not mislead people to think they don't need the mandatory bachelor degree and can get by with only a TEFL or TESOL or CELTA certificate. This was feasible two years ago - I agree. But they have really clamped down since last year [2013] you know.[/b] |
Ahh, so if a sales rep posted something that would be unreliable information, correct? So you do care about where your information comes from and not just the information itself!
You suffer from the same complex that RWA, Juice, and others have that you seem to think there's some grand conspiracy going on...you are not a victim, nor a hero...
I would never dream of misleading people into thinking they only needed a TEFL to get a legitimate job because that's not true.
Once again your conflating two separate issues, one being what the law is, and the other being the reality of life in China. The law says native English speaker, yet I know some Cameroonians that came here on work visas. The law says BA, yet I know some people without one who came here on work visas.
| Wo Dong wrote: |
Can you please post some links showing that TEFL, TESOL, and CELTA certificates are mandatory requirements or some official source that supports your claim that requirements are different in every province?
Maybe the above information is not convenient to some of the advertisers on this forum but the facts are not going to change to suit their sales quotas. Do you really disagree? |
All I'm going to say is what I've said before, a quick glance through the job posting on this site will show that a fair number of schools say it is required (FOR　THEIR　SCHOOL) or is preferred (BY THEIR SCHOOL). A requirement for a school doesn't make it a legal requirement for all of China, so please don't conflate the two.
| Wo Dong wrote: |
| Aside from the facts, I will surely concede that real TEFL, TESOL, and CELTA training programs will make most anyone a better teacher - but this should be the selling point, not a lie that their certificates are a "mandatory requirement" to teach in China. |
Indeed they can, if they are legitimate.
I've found most teachers who have a TEFL that came from a purely online site (mostly American) treated the class like the joke it was.
There are some decent TEFL classes out there that give teachers hands on experience in the West (I personally would never travel to another country to pay for a TEFL class). |
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Wo Dong
Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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I see you are the kind of guy who likes to argue about what shade of blue the sky may be today rather than just say it is "blue".
Yes, I consider the source of comments about TEFL courses if the guy making them earns his living selling them. He has a vested interest in what people believe. But if that party gives me complete and accurate information that is confirmed by other independent third parties, I will surely accept and value it.
What I posted can be confirmed by SAFEA, the U.S. embassy and Labor Law lawyers. Do your homework and see if I said anything that is not true.
And no, I give little value to any online or software-base training programs where trainers and classmates cannot interact, have a dialogue, and role play.
Also, I do not know of any online/software TEFL course that provides a certificate that is internationally recognized and accepted in emerging, BRIC, and modern countries. Take a look at this post because I am not interested in teaching in Somalia, Guatemala, Haiti, or Malaysia! http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=616386
I have never had any sales rep or "consultant" tell me the down-side of their product or service. They only tell us what they want us to believe to make a sale. Do you disagree? |
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PittsburghSound
Joined: 27 Aug 2014
Posts: 103
Location: Colombia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:34 am Post subject: |
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I wanted to bump this to lend a hand to newbies like me who are looking for jobs right now.
It seems that the vast majority of schools I've come across are now asking for some sort of TEFL/TESOL certificate for sure. I don't know if this was true or not in the past, but it seems to be true now. The TEFL/TESOL certificate will be even more important if you have no prior teaching experience.
So yes, if you are 1. A native speaker of English 2. Have a BA 3. Have a TEFL/TESOL Certificate and 4. Have 2 years of teaching experience...
it appears that you will qualify for the vast majority of jobs in China and a legal Z visa.
I know someone will say "but this is China, all of these rules can and will be bent at times to allow schools to hire someone"
This may be true, but what are the chances it's a really good school in a desirable location? Maybe the TEFL/TESOL certificate is the one you could most easily get by without. I don't know. |
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