Job Discussion Forums

[mysterytrain]

OP, I was a serious alcohol abuser / dependent for almost thirty years. I would classify myself as a self-rehabilitated alcoholic, but that flies in the face of the Western medical model of alcoholism (the "disease" model"), because over the last several years, I have very significantly reduced my consumption of alcohol, to the point where I often go for weeks at a time without consuming at all, yet have not given it up completely and have never been to or through any sort of rehab process, therapy, counseling or treatment. I made this change on my own, and gradually, as part of a life process kind of thing, and with a lot of factors involved.

I do not personally believe in the "disease model" of alcoholism. I read some books on alternative theories and therapy (basically how a person can willfully modify any behavior, including substance dependence behaviors, without having to abstain completely and permanently) when I was about twenty (I was trying to quit at the time, as my drinking behavior at that age had already reduced me to a miserable wreck, with the shakes, sleepless days and nights, and all ... everything but the DT's).

I did not put that information to much good use at the time ( I did stay sober for almost two months, but then went back to my usual ways for another two plus decades ... that was a choice I made), but I have done so in the past four years, simply by a series of choices and gradual drawdowns (it does not hurt at all that the choices where I've been living for the past three years are extremely limited, fairly expensive, and basically, crap ... I admit that if I were in a place with more tempting options, I would, well ... feel more tempted, more often).

The approach I have taken would not work for some people. If you feel it would not work for you, then you are very damn probably right (trust your self-knowledge and intuition), and I am NOT trying to recommend it to you. If you feel that you need complete abstinence, as well as social support, that is what you need.

What I would suggest"

1) Don't go to Korea, China, or any place where the drinking culture is thriving and rampant. Chinese people (traditionally, males) love to drink and get drunk, I have experienced it firsthand, indeed, being basically forced to get wasted on baijiu by my FAO and the leaders of my school, on a weekday night, with the full knowledge that I had to teach classes full of bright shining teenage faces the next morning, was a new (now blissfully remote) experience for me. I have not experienced Korea firsthand but just go to the Korea forums here, you will find ample anecdotal evidence of the drinking culture there, both among locals and expats.

Ditto for Thailand and Cambodia. And based on what's been said about supposed "alcohol-free zones" in the middle east, like Saudi, probably best to heed that advice.

2) Wherever you go, avoid the general expat scene, with the exception of "safe zones" (hanging around with specific expats or in meeting places where the activities are not based around alcohol).

Basically, this is what (the majority of) Western expats do in Asia: they get pissed and complain about (whatever) until they pass out, and they do it again at the next available opportunity. Hanging about with these folks and defiantly withstanding their "peer pressure" is definitely NOT the way to go, in my opinion.

Now, for a more positive suggestion (what to do, as opposed what not to do):

Go to a place where alcohol is present and is used, but is not a prominent part of the culture (another poster mentioned Turkey, I think this is probably quite a good suggestion, and I'd be willing to bet there are AA groups, probably in Istanbul or Ankara you could even find English speaking ones). Indonesia or Malaysia would be other possibilities, though the quandary is that the farther from the bigger cities, the less exposure to expat (and general) drinking scenes, but also less likelihood of English-speaking support groups.

or:

Go to a place where alcohol is not only not a prominent part of the culture, it is really quite difficult to find in the immediate vicinity, is definitively frowned upon (Muslim culture again) and is not generally sold or consumed. The tiny country of Brunei or the Indonesian province of Aceh spring to mind immediately, and there is a definite need and desire for native speaker teachers in both places, especially in Aceh, from what I've heard.

If I think of any other suggestions, I'll post them here.

[mysterytrain]

[mitsui]

I think the colder the country, the stronger desire to drink, with a few exceptions.
Korea and Japan have a lot of drinking.
I never drank as much as living here, around Tokyo.

Scandanavia should be ignored. Ditto for Poland.

Russia should be avoided. I knew a recovering alcoholic there who learned there were no AA meetings in English and then broke his contract.
AA meetings are only in Russian.
Previously he had drunk too much in Antarctica and had to do rehab in New Zealand.

Maybe Morocco or Malaysia. Malaysia or Singapore could have AA meetings in English.

In Morocco pay is low and finding booze takes time.
I worked 6 days a week, and drank rarely. I was really in good health there.
Bars can be seedy and not enjoyable places to drink.

I did know a Brit who got hammered in Casablanca on the weekends so,
if you have the time and money, you can get whatever booze you want.

[Mushkilla]

[Xie Lin]

[johnslat]

Dear Mushkilla,

"If you want to preserve your sanity and avoid alcoholism . . . ."

Unlike, say Christianity (you can be a Christian and avoid Christianity) an alcoholic cannot avoid alcoholism.

Regards,
John

[Mushkilla]

[johnslat]

Alcoholism is a chronic condition. You can stop drinking alcohol, but you are still an alcoholic.

Regards,
John

[haleynicole14]

I know it's not the same, but is there any chance an online AA group could be of any help if an English speaking group in your city of choice isn't available? I would imagine there are some. AlAnon has a couple.

[johnslat]

I used the Grateful Dead AA online group when I was in Saudi

Grateful Dead Email AA Group is an online group of people from all over the world — always newbies and lots of long timers, too. New topics are posted regularly. Rigidity is not our cup of tea. We care a lot about life and each other.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/GratefulDeadAA/
[email protected]

A google search will turn up others, as well.

Regards,
John

[scot47]

There are lots of online groups. Before the Internet came along, AA "Loners" kept in touch with others by post, if unable to get to a group. The Merchant Navy and the Military had lots of AA members who could not get to meetings easily.