Job Discussion Forums

[AussieGus]

Hi all.

I'm sure this has come up before but I can't find it. So here goes.

Just wondering if its feasible to live and work in China teaching English while on a family visa? I have a Chinese wife and we're contemplating moving to China next year with our two children as life in Australia is so uninspiring. I know its supposedly illegal for foreign ESL teachers to work on anything but an Z visa unlike South Korea where those with a local spouse can legally work.

But what does that mean in reality? What if I just avoided all the hassle of the medical checks, etc involved in procuring the Z visa and just taught on the family visa which is renewable indefinitely. Be much easier, wouldn't it? I do have the requisite teaching qualifications; BA, TESOL and six years teaching experience in Korea, btw. Just can't be arsed going through all the hassle when with a Chinese wife you should be able to work to support your family.

I'm sure the PSB have better things to do than worry about something so trivial.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[Shanghai Noon]

It is illegal to work as a teacher without a foreign expert certificate. I suggest doing it legally if you want a stable income. Working illegally you will probably be restricted to pieces of part-time work. These are lucrative on their own, but exhausting and unstable. To stay as a spouse you will probably be required to have a medical exam anyway. I sympathize with you, but the government's logic is that getting hitched to a Chinese national isn't a job qualification. In our home countries, we don't allow foreigners to be school teachers just because they marry a local. Some provinces will give you the foreign expert certificate if you have a spousal visa/residence permit, but starting with a Z visa is more secure.

Depending on what your degree is in, you might be able to get a job at a school where your children can be admitted for free, or reduced tuition as a benefit. I hope this helps.

[water rat]

When you say Australia is uninspiring, can you mean it's less of a challenge than living in China? I've never been, but Oz sounds pretty top drawer to me, and China... I think you know what China is like. Enough said.

The medical check isn't much of a hassle if you are in even passable health - can toddle from one nurse to the next and cough or not cough at the right time. I've been through med exams twice over the years. They took twenty minutes tops and were cursory at best. The man who directed my attention to the eye chart last time - I don't believe he was even paying any attention to my responses. The company paid, and I was never 'bothered' by the medical reports again.

So you know the Z visa is the only legitimate way to go, so what good is it to talk about what you 'should' be allowed to do? The way it is done is not that hard if you have a professional and legit employer, and you will want such an employer in any case. If after a few years they cannot renew your visa for some arcane reason, why you'll probably by then, be finding life in China too inspiring and be longing for Australian life - a Foster's in every garage and a wallaby in every pot...

[AussieGus]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Uninspiring and depressing.

Water Rat, have you ever been to Australia? The short answer is that there are few opportunities for someone of my age, job history, qualifications and ethnic group (Anglo Australian) along with the fact that life down under is boring as batshit. The long answer is that Anglo Aussies are a dying race. A fate largely self inflicted. Superficially it might appear like the land of milk and honey with a pristine, safe environment, a stable democracy and world class healthcare and education which is free. Reality is different. The pervasive political correctness is making life very difficult here for locals (True blue Aussies have to be the only ethnic group in the world that actively discriminate against their own people in the name of multiculturalism)not to mention the fact that life here is mundane, bland, sanitized and one dimensional.

The fact is I prefer the expat lifestyle and regret ever coming back to Australia. Immigrants love Australia due to the fact that governmental and social policy favour them. Nothing against them, my wife is one. However there's little future here for someone in my situation.

[ekim10]

[kungfuman]

A friend of mine in Wuxi married a Chinese girl - who happens to be the ugliest female in China - and he has worked on his family visa since day one.

He and I have discussed it several times and I guess his family visa is for more than one year as opposed to a one year - or less - RP.

He has had several different jobs since I met him about 5 or 6 years ago and only one urged him to change the visa but then backed down after he told them he didn't want to change it as getting it changed BACK to a family visa in the future was a big hassle.

To date he has never had a legal problem working - but then again maybe he just never got caught.

Is his work legal? Er no but then again the Chinese government doesn't make it easy for the spouse of a Chinese national to do anything, now does it?

[asiannationmc]

Family visitation visa: no work

Long term visa known as the "Green Card" allows the spouse to work.

[Voyeur]

I'm not sure the Foreign Expert Certificate and the Z Visa are essentially the same thing. It could be that you could get the cert, but still use the family Visa. Some good jobs may require the certificate.

[drjtrekker]

Aus,

Either Visa is basically the same, as far as hassle. Not too much.
The difference is, if you come in on a spousal, and ever want to switch to a Working Permit, u need to go back home.
Now that is the hassle.

The other poster was right. If your on spousal, your work will be part time, most likely, which isn't a bad thing necessarily, but you may have to go to many different places with different companies for work.
Again, this is a hassle.
And, you most likely will not get hired from a Uni, and some other types of employment, at least the more reputable ones. China is starting to crack down, sorta, seemingly in certain locales, regarding work visas.

I'm on a spousal, have a couple friends doing the same.
It has its pros and cons. If you start your own biz, or your own home school, it can be good. Again, you gotta hustle and find the right situations.

If you come in on a Z, with a GOOD job, meaning reputable Uni or school, you can always switch later to a spousal, simple to do.
But at least this way you can get your feet wet, since it seems from your previous posts you don't know the lay of the land, work wise.

Also depends on your financial circumstances.
If your not prepared, financially and otherwise, I think it would not be a wise move to leave a clean air, non censored "normal" country for this place, especially with kids, cuz it's "BORING" or whatever.
My Dogmatic Opinion there.
(I also have a child).

Aus, do your research on this forum, read the past posts about everything, job related and non, before u make a decision.
Find out what kind of jobs you can get, once u know where your going to go.
FInd out costs and the going rates for part time work and if there is a local laowai website/forum...this helps quite a lot when looking for work.

Ok, enough for now, good luck!

[El Macho]

It is illegal to work on a family visa. Don't do it.

[Bud Powell]

A friend has been in China for eight years. He's married to a local and has a spousal visa. He lives in a city of less than 2 million.

He owns property.

He worked for a university for five years while running a school out of his apartment. The PSB came to his house and let him know that they knew that he was teaching in his home and told him that he could continue as long as he didn't sign up more students.

That was three months ago or so.

Then he was summoned to the PSB for what could have been a big hassle. All the PSB wanted was to check his papers to ascertain that he was who he was. His wife is satisfied that there won't be a hassle.

This is just one anecdote. That doesn't mean that someone in another city would be treated the same way.

My understanding is that a spousal visa does not allow one to work. I was surprised when he wasn't fined. I think that a lot of times, it's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission. Mt guess is that if he had gone through the hassle of applying for a business license FIRST, etc., he would have been refused. They didn't hassle him about taxes or a license, something that i find quite strange.

You might get away with working, but you might also go to jail. I wouldn't risk it. Go legit and talk to someone who knows the law and how it is applied.

[AussieGus]

Its blatantly unfair.

In Australia Chinese on a spousal visa are allowed to legally do any work they're able to get plus access free medical care. The only thing they can't do is access social welfare which happens after two years. No wonder when they arrive in Australia they think they're in heaven. Another thing I can't stand about the Australian version of multiculturalism; we bend over backwards to accommodate them yet in China they treat us so shabbily. Why won't they reciprocate? Korea might be the most xenophobic country known to mankind but atleast there foreign spouses get a fair go. They can work legally and even have access to subsidized medical treatment.

Another thing is would a Westerner really go to jail in China purely for working illegally? Unless there was drugs, sexual assault, etc involved I highly doubt it. I would've thought you'd get a warning at worst.

[JoeKing]

[Shanghai Noon]

[El Macho]

Oops, I fed the troll!