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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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 Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| BleedingBlue wrote: |
| What does ANY of this have to do with the OP's message about visa and working? Wow. |
Blood! Where you been? I thought someone reported you for the troll you are, and for appearing here under a new name despite the multiply banned person you be. I know I asked you this before, Blood, but you never did answer: Who died and made you Jiminy Cricket? |
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Mikeylikesit114
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| AussieGus wrote: |
Cheers guys.
A lot to think about there. I don't think I could afford to send my kids to international schools if they cost 30k per year. Is home schooling an option until they're about 10-12? I don't want to disadvantage them for life.
Its a real catch 22 situation. A few years in China would give me a new lease of life but it might not be the best thing for my family. |
I think it's incredible that nobody here has called out Gus for how selfish he's being. A father does what's best for his family. If that means picking up garbage or wiping an old geezer's backside or begging in the street, then so be it. To hell with professional respect. You need to man up and think about your family first. |
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AussieGus
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Fair call Mikey. I need that kind of honesty to make an informed decision.
But AM I being selfish?
Yes it would far better for me in China in many ways. HOWEVER as long as we return to Australia before my children hit their teens what is the downside as far as they're concerned? Many have told me a decade in China would provide them with a unique experience as well as the ability to speak fluent Mandarin which could only be an asset. Also wouldn't my kids be better off where their father is happy, productive and imbued with some degree of self worth? While mopping floors or wiping arses I can't even look at myself in the mirror. Junkies have a higher status in Australian society. In China I would have RESPECT.
Or would I be better off remaining in Australia at all costs for my kids sake? Surely China isn't that bad, is it? |
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drjtrekker
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| What's incredible is that you peeps keep talking to this Bleep. |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| drjtrekker wrote: |
| What's incredible is that you peeps keep talking to this Bleep. |
So what is it you want? Okay. Bye, trekker.
Last edited by water rat on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ESL104
Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Mikeylikesit114 wrote: |
| AussieGus wrote: |
Cheers guys.
A lot to think about there. I don't think I could afford to send my kids to international schools if they cost 30k per year. Is home schooling an option until they're about 10-12? I don't want to disadvantage them for life.
Its a real catch 22 situation. A few years in China would give me a new lease of life but it might not be the best thing for my family. |
I think it's incredible that nobody here has called out Gus for how selfish he's being. A father does what's best for his family. If that means picking up garbage or wiping an old geezer's backside or begging in the street, then so be it. To hell with professional respect. You need to man up and think about your family first. |
Just because you have children doesn't also mean you forfeit any right to happiness just because it's better for them.
As always, weigh up the relative costs and benefits. I for one can't see too much downside here - it's not as though janitor work is a high paying career or has future advancement prospects, so I doubt OP's family is living the high life right now. Won't be much worse in China anyway - you're just trading low paid work in one country for low paid work in another.
I've seen it asserted on this forum that a single guy can live reasonably, albeit not extravagantly, on 3000rmb a month after his apartment is paid for. Let's extrapolate that to 12000rmb for a family of 4 (it'll be a bit less than this probably due to certain economies of scale, but let's go with it for now). If OP gets 5500rmb for uni work, then works 10 hours a week at a language school at a shitty rate of 150rmb an hour, he's got his 12000rmb a month right there. Those 10 hours could be easily had by living in a big city and working on Saturdays and maybe an additional evening or two. Or he could just do a big training centre grind during his summer holidays to bank a load of cash, then just do his uni job during term times.
Life would hardly be a picnic but I doubt life is all that great living in Australia on janitor wages either. |
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AussieGus
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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That's right, ESL.
I'm not exactly providing my family with the high life in Australia either. We get by just but why really stings is not only the fact that I'm stuck in a dead end, menial job that I have no interest in but the way such menial workers are regarded in Australian society. I see the absolute disdain in the eyes of people who cross my path while I'm mopping the floor; 'Just get out of my way, you moldy peasant'. That's a shock to the ego as I regard myself as reasonably educated, capable and cultured but not valued in Australia. As is the case anywhere else, money and status rule and if you don't have any in Australia at the age of 38, your going nowhere. Without any exaggeration, the junkies down at the train station who beg for money have more credibility than me. At least they're 'cool'.
In China, while I wouldn't necessarily make more money than I do here, probably less, I would leap frog up into the middle class. 12,000 RMB is a good wage by any objective standards. My brother in law has a family to support and he makes about 4000. Perhaps more importantly for my self esteem I would have a respectable profession in a Confucian state and be able to look people in the eye. The fact that my passion is living amidst and learning about different cultures (hence my anthropology major) not withstanding.
The problem is, as my wife points out, there's no security in China. In Australia the state covers all medical expenses and quality care is easily accessible at any time. Australia is a welfare state and even those who can't work (or don't want to) will survive. If something went wrong we could be in trouble.
Is the political situation anything to worry about? Friends who have lived in socialist countries have told me that China might not be the place for someone who is very outspoken. Of course I'd keep my views to myself..... |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| "To live unknown and not fret, is not that to be a gentleman?" -Confucius |
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AussieGus
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| drjtrekker wrote: |
| What's incredible is that you peeps keep talking to this Bleep. |
I think I figured out why you don't like me, drj.
I simply illuminate through my posts your reality and aspects of yourself that you'd simply rather not confront. You've been hiding in your little China bubble for so long that you know you can never leave. The fact is that if you returned to the good old USA you'd find things just as tough as me. Probably more so. Life is easier in Australia for poor white trash losers with useless degrees and experience teaching in Asia that no one back home cares less about.
The fact that you also have a Chinese wife means that we have more in common that you'd like to acknowledge, so you go on the attack.
Don't blame me for your lamentable existence mate. Deal with it. |
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relaxtischina
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| AussieGus wrote: |
| That's right, ESL. I'm not exactly providing my family with the high life in Australia either. We get by just but why really stings is not only the fact that I'm stuck in a dead end, menial job that I have no interest in but the way such menial workers are regarded in Australian society. |
Gus, The nice thing in Aus is that if you are stuck in what YOU consider to be a dead end job you can choose to leave it and in your case still be receive around $700 from centrelink per week (if you are renting). While you may just get by on this amount in Melbourne, other places is Aus are far cheaper. Also before assuming you will receive the respect you need in China be very sure that this is the case. IMHO considering how far the supply and demand situation in China seems to favor the foreign teacher it is amazing that salaries are often stagnant at best for over 10 years. Perhaps this can in part be explained by racist laws that prevent foreign teachers from (at least officially) starting their own school. A fact which may reduce your feeling of being respected in the Middle Kingdom and which could give you that ‘dead end’ job feeling again.
| AussieGus wrote: |
| Is the political situation anything to worry about? Friends who have lived in socialist countries have told me that China might not be the place for someone who is very outspoken. Of course I'd keep my views to myself..... |
China is not a socialist country. Australia has far stronger claims to this title. The current version of communism in the PRC is best described as a thin coat of red paint applied over a society that combines its fuedal roots with a less than free market economy. Also foreigners who promote ideas that go against the party (democracy is a good idea, three Ts etc) line can and have been deported on the basis they are ‘interfering in internal affairs’. |
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Alien abductee
Joined: 08 Jun 2014
Posts: 527
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| relaxtischina wrote: |
| IMHO considering how far the supply and demand situation in China seems to favor the foreign teacher it is amazing that salaries are often stagnant at best for over 10 years. |
Stagnant salaries aren't unique to China. It's part of a huge discussion in most of the developed countries too. Real wages (income after inflation is taken into account) haven't increased in my country for 30 years, and families with two breadwinners can barely keep their heads above water today. Starting salaries for many jobs in China might look the same as they did five or ten years ago and if you're a job hopper you'll never see a rise in pay. But if you hang on to the same job and prove yourself your salary can and often will go up. I started at a basic college salary some years ago and today I'm at just about double that for the same amount of work. The key is to find a good job, perform, and stay there.
| relaxtischina wrote: |
| AussieGus wrote: |
| Is the political situation anything to worry about? Friends who have lived in socialist countries have told me that China might not be the place for someone who is very outspoken. Of course I'd keep my views to myself..... |
China is not a socialist country. Australia has far stronger claims to this title. The current version of communism in the PRC is best described as a thin coat of red paint applied over a society that combines its fuedal roots with a less than free market economy. Also foreigners who promote ideas that go against the party (democracy is a good idea, three Ts etc) line can and have been deported on the basis they are ‘interfering in internal affairs’. |
This is covered in every contract under Party B's obligations - "Party B shall observe the laws, decrees and relevant regulations enacted by the Chinese government and shall not interfere in China’s internal affairs." This, and common sense should tell you to not discuss the so-called "Three Ts" or whatever in class, at least not directly. We once had a FT who was "very outspoken." He couldn't keep his mouth shut and had to tell everyone - fellow teachers, students, school leadership - his feelings on how badly China dealt with sensitive matters. This is what schools want to avoid. It doesn't mean you can't discuss these issues with anybody, just don't be a dumb-ass, keep it on the down low and you'll be fine. |
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AussieGus
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Mmmmmm.
I remember staying with my in laws in Baoding a couple of years back and going out to dinner with my brother in law and a couple of his friends who speak excellent English. I asked them, after a few drinks, what they think about Chinese brutality in Tibet. They said they really had know idea what I'm talking about..............
That's true, relax. However I can tell you that living on Centrelink is about the most depressing existence known to man. I've done it. Due to the East Asian reverence for education they do tend to put teachers up on a pedestal, even foreign ones. Korea is a xenophobic, intolerant country but as a teacher I still had a measure of respect that a cleaner or manual labourer could only dream of.
As for Australia being Socialist there's a lot of truth to this. Free medical care, free education, generous unemployment benefits, high taxation and the tendency to keep a highly competent and elite workforce in the field while being willing to maintain the rest on state benefits for life..................... |
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relaxtischina
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Alien abductee wrote: |
| Stagnant salaries aren't unique to China. It's part of a huge discussion in most of the developed countries too. Real wages (income after inflation is taken into account) haven't increased in my country for 30 years, and families with two breadwinners can barely keep their heads above water today. Starting salaries for many jobs in China might look the same as they did five or ten years ago and if you're a job hopper you'll never see a rise in pay. But if you hang on to the same job and prove yourself your salary can and often will go up. I started at 4300/mo at my current job a few years back and today I'm just shy of 9000 for the same amount of work. The key is to find a good job, perform, and stay there. |
You make some good points re other countries however unlike other countries you mention, China has arguably a massive unmet demand for foreign ESL teachers. My point is that the cause of salary stagnation for FT in China, unlike elsewhere, has largely been because:
1. A work visa can only be legally obtained if tied to an employment contract.
2. Racist laws that prevent ‘foreigners’ from starting their own school.
If you had the legal right to run your own school or only work privates then you would likley have the chance to get a much higher salary than you enjoy now.
| Alien abductee wrote: |
This is covered in every contract under Party B's obligations - "Party B shall observe the laws, decrees and relevant regulations enacted by the Chinese government and shall not interfere in China’s internal affairs." This, and common sense should tell you to not discuss the so-called "Three Ts" or whatever in class, at least not directly. We once had a FT who was "very outspoken." He couldn't keep his mouth shut and had to tell everyone - fellow teachers, students, school leadership - his feelings on how badly China dealt with sensitive matters. This is what schools want to avoid. It doesn't mean you can't discuss these issues with anybody, just don't be a dumb-ass, keep it on the down low and you'll be fine. |
Yes leave your values at home often enough and soon you may forget you had any.
O well at least it makes collecting the paycheck easier. Also has anyone ever had the dos and do nots explicitly spelt out to them in their contract re what they are not allowed to publically talk about (5 lashes for using the word democracy in a nice way during class for example?) Where is the line drawn? Arguing common sence IMHO dos’nt cut it. FT at least have a right to know exactly where the line is drawn. |
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SH_Panda
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| AussieGus wrote: |
they really had know idea what I'm talking about..............
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Nope.
Stick to wiping arses with your manky Canadian hands. English teaching isn't for you.
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AussieGus
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Mate. I'm looking forward to retiring these hands. You never made a typo?
If you can do it then I'm pretty sure I can do it. After all I'm white, a native speaker and have a western passport.
Apparently that's all you need. |
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