Job Discussion Forums

dragonpiwo · Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 1650 Location: Berlin

Do you absolutely need these to get paid? They won't give me my PESEL till I reregister here (zameldowania), so tomorrow it's off to the tax office to try my luck with NIP. I've lived in 4 different countries since I last worked here and don't have my old paperwork.

Also, if you register here for more than 3 months (only way to get a PESEL we were told today) what do you reckon the residency implications of that are regarding tax?

I'm worried I might get shafted on global income.

delphian-domine · Joined: 11 Mar 2011 Posts: 674

For normal taxpayers, the NIP has been abolished, it's the same as your PESEL now. The tax office might give you one regardless, but expect to be told that you don't need it. But if you were working here before, then you should still have a valid NIP - I think I'm still paying tax under the NIP rather than the PESEL too. The second point is more of an issue - I think I linked you to it a few months ago, that you can be judged resident on two conditions - either you're here for 185 days, or your "centre of worldwide interests" is here. My personal opinion - if you're registered here, then you're opening yourself up for tax liabilities, as one of the conditions of getting the certificate of residency is that you're ordinarily resident in Poland.

dragonpiwo · Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 1650 Location: Berlin

That's what I'm thinking. No prob all the time I had a valid Libyan residency visa and spent less than 185 days here a year but now....different kettle of fish.We'll see if I can get my old NIP. Thing is this is only 'temporary' and I really don't want to appear here. Our oil company has said it will pay any liability in excess of the tax we pay in Libya but that remains to be seen. Frankly, I don't trust 'em and I could be back here for a year.

Sod's law that Sterling is doing pretty well against the PLN and we're not getting paid right now!

dragonpiwo · Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 1650 Location: Berlin

Got my old NIP today. Does that mean I can now pay tax? Do I need a PESEL? I don't want to register here as I won't be here that long hopefully as other things are on the horizon.

simon_porter00 · Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 505 Location: Warsaw, Poland

Your NIP is your tax number, your PESEL isyour ID number as a person in Poland. Your PESEL was created at the moment your NIP was, only that they don't tell you (or at least they didn't tell me in Warsaw). A few years ago i had to pay 20zl to get the urzad to release that info. Because you're old school your PESEL will be 11 digits long. The first two digits will be your year of birth, second two will be the month, third two the date. The other 5 follow another convention but the last digiit should be an odd number to signify you're male. I'll hazard a guess your PESEL is 45122576195 Smile

dragonpiwo · Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 1650 Location: Berlin

So, do you actually need a PESEL or will the NIP suffice? I don't want to be registered here as I'm registered, so to speak, in the UK.

simon_porter00 · Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 505 Location: Warsaw, Poland

I think you're getting a bit confused. Your NIP and PESEL are merely ID numbers of one type or another. Registration is where you go to the urzad and declare yourself to be living at an address in Poland. Technically you are obliged to be registered (i think) but you don't have to be if you can't be bothered. I, for instance, haven't been registered for years and certainly not in my house.

In order to be done for tax purposes (assuming you are a sole trader) they i.e. the various authorities would have to prove that Poland is your 'place of interest' or whatever DD said. They would, in effect, have to start proceedings against you to prove this.

Your NIP usage i.e. the fact that you've been paying tax could be used to show this might be the case, but that's a long way from proof. If you're only going to be here a year and earn only a reasonable amount, they'd have to be extremely bored to go after you. If you were earning millions, that's a different story.

simon_porter00 · Joined: 09 Nov 2005 Posts: 505 Location: Warsaw, Poland

To answer your question, you don't need a PESEL number i.e. actually know what it is; but one exists in the system somewhere. The only people that know it are the government (if they can find it). If you use your passport in place of a PESEL
, that might sell the idea that you're only here temporarily.

You will pay tax against you NIP number only. When you pay tax online through a bank website, you only use your NIP. This is the only number you have to give to a client/school/anyone who will pay you.

dragonpiwo · Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 1650 Location: Berlin

Thanks Simon.

I'm only working part-time till I go back and I'm more worried about having to pay tax on what I earn outside Poland in any 1 financial year.

We went to the PESEL place 2 days ago and they told us I could only get my PESEL if I register where I live for more than 3 months. He wouldn't divulge my old one.

oipivo · Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 163 Location: Poland

They do get a little weird at NFZ and ZUS offices if you don't have your PESEL.

When I signed up for ZUS they said I had to have a PESEL, but let me sign up anyway stating that I had to return with a PESEL as soon as I could. Then I was told it wasn't necessary and didn't have to go back. Who knows. A few NFZ offices have disliked that I didn't have a PESEL and tried to charge me for procedures that weren't necessary. That could have just been a bad office though. Again, who really knows.

dragonpiwo · Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 1650 Location: Berlin

I guess all I really wanna know is will I get paid if I only supply a NIP?

delphian-domine · Joined: 11 Mar 2011 Posts: 674

Shouldn't be a problem, the NIP is more than enough for the tax office. I notice that they even specifically ask in the tax office "do you have a PESEL, or only NIP?" - so it should be fine. As long as they (the tax office and employer) know that "dragonpiwo" lives at such and such a place and they have the correct personal details (name, etc) and the details match, I can't see any need for them to have the PESEL.

dragonpiwo · Joined: 04 Mar 2013 Posts: 1650 Location: Berlin

However, I no longer live at the address I was living at when I got my NIP. Does that matter? I don't want to register myself officially as living anywhere. Even my temporary place of residence ie the one on my KP is out of date as I don't live there anymore either. So if I write my current address on the form I have to give my employer and it doesn't tally with my old address, which I used to get my NIP many moons ago, will that be a problem?

I'd rather use my 'sand' address (for which I have a valid residency permit) or my English address quite frankly. I can live where I like in the EU can't I as a Brit?

I won't be here much longer.

delphian-domine · Joined: 11 Mar 2011 Posts: 674

You'll need to make sure that the tax office has your current address, otherwise it might set off some alarm bells. Your employer will ask you for your tax office - which depends on the place where you live. I *think* all you need to do is to give the updated address on the tax return at the end of the year, however, there's no need to do it now AFAIK. You won't be able to use an address outside Poland - they would never accept a school paying a teacher to a non-Polish address. One possible dodge might be to open a UK limited company and run everything through that, but the accounts might be problematic.