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How to tell if a job offer is legal while IN China?
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water rat



Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan123 wrote:
vikeologist wrote:
A lot simpler than that (if you can read Chinese). There's a list of employers allowed to hire foreigners.

http://webadmin.safea.gov.cn/pic/wjs/1397097838.mingce20140331.pdf


Wow, I never knew a list like this actually existed. This will definitely help me out a lot Cool

Excellent. It's actually no problem that it's in Chinese because I live in a part of the world where some billion and a half people can read Chinese, and they'll do it for free! Smile I've written to Mr Kalgukshi to nominate your post as a sticky, Mr. V. I hope some of you could write and second or third my motion. We could help a lot of people.


Last edited by water rat on Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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wangdaning



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikeologist wrote:
A lot simpler than that (if you can read Chinese). There's a list of employers allowed to hire foreigners.

http://webadmin.safea.gov.cn/pic/wjs/1397097838.mingce20140331.pdf


Very useful, I just fear it will be outdated every few seconds.

Not trying to belittle you, that is a very good link.
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before one says anything to his intended former employer, he should see a contract that guarantees a new residence permit. In addition, he should find out if that particular school has been in existence for at least thirteen months. It doesn't matter if it's a new branch of an established franchise. THAT particular school must have been in operation before it can even apply to hire foreigners.

I was guaranteed that one school could hire me. After all, there were already foreigners working there. I required a letter from the home office with a statement saying that it was authorized to hire foreigners. Six weeks later, I heard back from the school (it was in my city), and was told that no, they couldn't hire foreigners. They feigned ignorance of the thirteen-month rule. The FTs who were working for their language school were all working there illegally.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course there is the scenario where FTs are legally hired and then farmed out to another school which doesn't have that right.
As long as you are legal I suppose it doesn't matter but it underlines the need to know where you are going to teach and live.
Darn - another useless post for BleedingBlue to react to Smile
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True Blue



Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

El Macho wrote:
vikeologist wrote:
A lot simpler than that (if you can read Chinese). There's a list of employers allowed to hire foreigners.

http://webadmin.safea.gov.cn/pic/wjs/1397097838.mingce20140331.pdf
Very useful, thanks for sharing it!


You can get a copy of that same list in English from China Scam Patrol. It was free two years ago. Should still be free but don't know for sure.
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be aware that True Blue has a personal agenda.

He has been reported to the powers that be, but there's no one at the helm.
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Bud Powell



Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True Blue wrote:
El Macho wrote:
vikeologist wrote:
A lot simpler than that (if you can read Chinese). There's a list of employers allowed to hire foreigners.

http://webadmin.safea.gov.cn/pic/wjs/1397097838.mingce20140331.pdf
Very useful, thanks for sharing it!


You can get a copy of that same list in English from China Scam Patrol. It was free two years ago. Should still be free but don't know for sure.


Mr. Kalkan and Dave Spurious:

WAKE UP YOU LAMP DUCKS!

PERSONAL AGENDA ALERT!
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True Blue



Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Bud, there is no personal agenda here. You. Macho, and Vikeologist all gave good advice, but I think people would prefer a list in English instead of Chinese! Take a chill pill and relax.

For people already in China and worried about the reps of their next prospective employer, I recommend a quick visit to http://chinascamwatch.org to help you with your own homework. Don't depend on other people to tell you the truth. In China you have a 50% chance of hearing it.


Last edited by True Blue on Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shanghai Noon



Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True Blue wrote:
El Macho wrote:
vikeologist wrote:
A lot simpler than that (if you can read Chinese). There's a list of employers allowed to hire foreigners.

http://webadmin.safea.gov.cn/pic/wjs/1397097838.mingce20140331.pdf
Very useful, thanks for sharing it!


You can get a copy of that same list in English from China Scam Patrol. It was free two years ago. Should still be free but don't know for sure.


Are you out of your mind? If such a list exists, it is totally useless. The school's legal names are all in Chinese, not English. Even if you can't read/write Chinese, you can always copy/paste the name your prospective school gives you and search it in the PDF.
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True Blue



Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shanghai Noon wrote:
True Blue wrote:
El Macho wrote:
vikeologist wrote:
A lot simpler than that (if you can read Chinese). There's a list of employers allowed to hire foreigners.

http://webadmin.safea.gov.cn/pic/wjs/1397097838.mingce20140331.pdf
Very useful, thanks for sharing it!


You can get a copy of that same list in English from China Scam Patrol. It was free two years ago. Should still be free but don't know for sure.


Are you out of your mind? If such a list exists, it is totally useless. The school's legal names are all in Chinese, not English. Even if you can't read/write Chinese, you can always copy/paste the name your prospective school gives you and search it in the PDF.


The SAFEA list does not endorse or certify that a school is honest or good - only that they are authorized to hire foreigners (a special and expensive license is needed from the government). There are over 2,000 schools on that list which Vikeologist gave the Chinese link for.

Two years ago, I attended a China Risk Management seminar at the Friendship Hotel hosted jointly by China Scam Patrol, The CFTU, and the Chamber of Commerce and CSP had translated that list into English and was giving away free copies of it to people who had USB flash drives and they also had a link where they had uploaded it. I did not have a need for it at the time, so I didn't bother to copy it. The CFTU took that list last year and filtered it against the schools that had no complaints and my understanding is that 879 schools were vetted so to speak. See: http://chinaforeignteachersunion.com and get what you need/want - its all free as far as I know.
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The_Kong



Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 349

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True Blue wrote:

Two years ago, I attended a China Risk Management seminar at the Friendship Hotel hosted jointly by China Scam Patrol, The CFTU, and the Chamber of Commerce and CSP


Do you have any proof that such an event actually took place? Pictures, e-mails, texts, pamphlettes you could scan with the date and place on it?

Anything at all?

Because I'm fairly certain if those groups were honest with the Hotel they wouldn't allow an illegal union to host a meeting on it's premises.

It's starting to make sense why you always feel like the heat is on and are so worried about crackdowns, it's all because you have been participating in illegal union activities!

True Blue wrote:
had translated that list into English and was giving away free copies of it to people who had USB flash drives and they also had a link where they had uploaded it. I did not have a need for it at the time, so I didn't bother to copy it.


How convenient. And I bet the same thing will happen when I send them an e-mail, they won't respond, just like the CFTU didn't respond to any of my e-mails when I asked for the very list you're talking about.

What group (in their right mind) would translate a 375 page list of school names into English? It doesn't make sense.

True Blue wrote:
The CFTU took that list last year and filtered it against the schools that had no complaints and my understanding is that 879 schools were vetted so to speak


And you honestly don't find any problems with this methodology?

Are you that thick or are you that naive?
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True Blue



Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Kong but i had no reason to save anything from a 2 year old event. But if you subscribe to the CFTU newsletter or scam alerts, or attend a meeting you can ask to be informed of events, although I think most of their stuff is for members only. I only subscribed to the scam alerts, and social events. Here is something I found on google about some of their public events, and I guess the Friendship Hotel doesn't have a problem with them:

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/cftu-sponsors-cross-cultural-training-seminar-for-new-china-foreign-expat-teachers/

http://www.thebeijinger.com/events/2014/may/cftu-cross-cultural-training-seminar-new-expat-foreign-teachers-free

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/china-scam-alert-seminar-by-china-scam-patrol/

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/china-foreign-teachers-union-freebie-fun-day/

http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2014/02/07/free-legal-guide-english-china-expat-foreign-teachers

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/blog/scam-alert-foreign-teacher-fraud/

Since you mentioned you were a recruiter for years I can understand why you probably don't like these groups but I was just pointing out where you can get the list for free in English, nothing more.


Also at a forum called "Happier Abroad" the below was posted by user "perky" and another "torino" who attended a similar event or maybe the same one.

QUOTE:
Postby Perky » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:34 am
I actually used the CFTU to collect my last paycheck from my slick principal last year at *** English (10,000rmb). Even though I chose not to become a member they helped me anyway. I did attend two of their meetings and the cross-cultural seminar two weeks ago at the Friendship Hotel. They are all expats and I and got a lot of free stuff from them that has been pretty useful so far.

http://www.bjstuff.com/forum/topics/15-free-anti-scam-weapons-for-expat-china-foreign-teachers-from

The reason I chose not to become a member is only because I have no extra free time to do any of the volunteer work they ask for since membership is free. They did admit that they are not a real union because private unions are illegal in China, but it was explained that they chose that name to let teachers know they do the work of unions - dealing with gripes and cheater employers. I was expecting this group to try and peddle something to me like a TEFL course or some training, but it turned out they do not sell or promote or even advertise any goods or services. So then I thought they were going to hustle some born-again Christian religion on me. Nope. I don't even get spam from them, just the scam alerts that I subscribed to.

I also like them because they expose the dark side of the China expat teachers market and the many tricks and traps that are pretty easy to fall for. I think this article is one every newbie teacher should read.

http://open.salon.com/blog/china_busine ... _hype_lies

For the past three years I have always used their "agent reply form letter" which so far has saved me a lot of time, money, and grief.

http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=14105

My ex introduced me to the group in 2011 and a lot of the leaders are from the old China Teacher's Alliance that was busted up by the government. This may explain why they try to keep a low profile and only tell people their first names. That secrecy seems to be their only down-side. But anyone who helps me get my paycheck from a greedy Chinese sham is righteous in my book.



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CFTU deserves support from all of us esl & tefl teachers

Postby Torino » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:27 pm
I got fu*cked over by two agents and a school before I crossed paths with the CFTU website and got a crash course on reality in China. These expats don't give a shit about being politically correct. They tell the truth and expose all the bottom feeders who make a lot money as agents but pose as "fellow teachers" on all the esl/tefl forums and message boards. These are the only ones who trash and bash the China Foreign Teachers Union because they were exposed on the CFTU blacklist!

The CFTU gave me a bunch of free advice, visa laws, contract templates, and even an introduction to the Chinese authorities who helped catch the Chinese "recruiter" who got credit cards issued in my name and rang up a $9,700 tab! They never asked me for anything in return. China is a safer place for expat teachers because of these CFTU guys so let's support them."

UNQUOTE

A 375 page document with less than 300 words per page could probably be translated in a day with two or three volunteers - no big deal. And when I requested a copy of China labor and visa laws in English about a month ago, I immediately got an auto-respond message and about 3 or 4 days later I got the pdf files of the laws. If you want a copy send me a pm with your email address Kong.
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