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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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 Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:13 am Post subject: Re: Seeking work - what to expect? What to watch out for? |
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| Martinaj wrote: |
They loved me here and have given me a glowing letter of recommendation, but they gave me so much autonomy that they aren't super familiar with my in-classroom performance, simply being satisfied with the end results of each class.
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I had been told that with pre-training experience the on-site cert wasn't necessary. I have learned since then that this may not have been the case |
One of the reasons that on-site training that includes observed teaching is beneficial is because previous teaching experience doesn't necessarily mean that that teaching was good (because, like your case in China, some employers aren't aware of what their teachers are actually doing in the classroom).
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| Should I stick to ALT positions, or can I get a bit more ambitious? |
More ambitious like what? Probably the only step up for ALT work (without having a related MA, Japanese language, and/or academic publications) is direct-hire ALT work (rather than through a dispatch company) or a direct-hire position at a private high school. Both of these are not usually advertised online, and are often filled by word-of-mouth/recommendation of the person who is leaving. So, for these jobs, you'd likely need to be in country for at least a year before you are able to network enough to hear about such jobs.
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| It seems 250,000 is a common entry-level baseline, but that seems to be aimed at a lot of positions that assume teachers with little to no experience and in some cases no certification. Would it be reasonable to aim for something closer to 280k to 300k per month? Is it common for teachers to have to pay for their own plane tickets, or should I be able to find a school that covers that cost? |
Most employers do not provide airfare. You can aim for something closer to 280k-300k, but there aren't many of those. Most ALT dispatch companies just want a warm body in the classroom who isn't going to cause any problems. There are also a lot of people applying for jobs in Japan (some of whom are already in the country and don't need visa sponsorship) who are willing to take the lower salaries, meaning that ALT and eikaiwa companies don't need to pay 300k.
Rather than holding out for something that pays 300k, I think you are probably best off taking a job that pays around 220-250k, and then once you are in the country, you can search for something better. That is, unless you get accepted by JET. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
Please take everything you read here with a pinch of salt. Forums are the habitat of people with lots of time on their hands, not where successful happy people spend their days.
Japan if far from perfect but it has not been as cruel to me as some of the others on this forum, if you've got an interest in Japan, then give it a shot. Just don't expect to be raking in the cash during your first year. |
Sorry I wasn't trying to be negative. Japan isn't all bad. Problem is it is hard to get to just OK. I also think many people are too nice about Japan as they like the society. But the EFL industry here is rough and people should know |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:13 am Post subject: |
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People have given some great advice but I still feel like you're selling Japan short.
It's far from easy, you can't come on over on a boat with a degree in hand and be sure to land a $40,000 job, but where can you do that these days?
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| Japan is the worst country one cold target as a viable TEFL destination now. |
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You've got that wrong. Japanese TEFL contracts are among the least lucrative in the Asian EFL industry, if you account for cost of living.
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| Not a lot of history here either. Outside of Kyoto and rural areas, everything is new. |
Comments like the above are clearly not grounded in any version of reality that I'm aware of.
I know people who have got direct hire contracts after one year in country. It's a little optimistic to expect that to definitely happen to everyone I admit, but there's no reason someone who's taught here a couple years and learnt a bit of Japanese can't get a direct hire position at a BOE or school. The average salary of these positions is about 3.5 Million yen a year with health insurance and pension paid but you can find better ones.
Whether or not a long term career is viable isn't really that relavent because the OP made clear that he only wishes to stay to gain a few years experience before going for a DELTA, sounds like a perfectly reasonable plan to me. I have no reason to believe that he won't be able to accomplish that, have a good time and save some money while he's doing it.[/quote] |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Take a look at the other forums on this site and you'll see that people everywhere are making the same negative statements about whatever country they're in.
Maybe it's the TEFL industry in general, maybe it's the people it attracts or maybe it's just the kind of thing you'll read on any internet forum. |
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timothypfox
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:47 am Post subject: |
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What worked for me to get ahead in this industry in Japan was returning back to the states after a 2-year job at an eikaiwa, getting teacher certification and an MA tesol in the US and teaching for 4 and half years in public school.
During that time I researched more qualified jobs in japan on ohayo sensei and here and other places, and focused my efforts on looking for private high school (as opposed to international schools - which will really workhorse you). I finally found a job most surprisingly through here. Most jobs listed here are entry-level - but apparently not all...
If you have the patience to do all that, I do still see listings for private school positions in Japan (NOT international schools) that offer decent salaries and benefits and an offer of tenure. I believe there was one in the latest edition of Ohayo Sensei.
So, getting ahead in Japan I think can be achieved faster if you get a teacher license, an MA, and public school teaching experience in your country first.
That of course depends on what you're looking for. If you don't mind a 250,000 a month or a little less salary - I've met some people who are pretty happy working at Kindergartens as a nice alternative to eikaiwas.
The ALT route can lead to permanent position through direct hire municipalities.
You may need to start out with something entry and work your way up. In general the Japan market will look more openly on an MA (even if it is earned by distance ed) than a CELTA or DELTA. Those later qualifications better serve you in Europe rather than Asia I believe.
So, don't give up - but realize you will need to take certain steps and have some patience to build up a career here. Japanese employers tend to like employees with Japanese or Japanese-related experience. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
Take a look at the other forums on this site and you'll see that people everywhere are making the same negative statements about whatever country they're in.
Maybe it's the TEFL industry in general, maybe it's the people it attracts or maybe it's just the kind of thing you'll read on any internet forum. |
Often it's a sense of entitlement, solely because they speak English; they expect employers to jump at the chance to hire them and their 'stellar' English skills. Other TEFLers head abroad with high/unrealistic expectations about the job and/or culture, and subsequently, become disappointed. For example, the Saudi forum has comments from teachers who accepted positions, but then bad-mouthed the country for its conservatism. There are those who are now whining about not getting offers of $10,000 USD a month (with a vanilla BA) because 1) it's challenging to live/work in KSA and 2) they expected the streets to be paved in gold. |
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Martinaj
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:37 am Post subject: |
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I'm not expecting to have Japan handed to me on a platter, and I KNEW when I left China that I would be taking a hit in pay wherever I worked next. I'm trying to be optimistic but realistic here. I know I am starting at or near the bottom, but I'm hoping I can sell myself in a way that it will be "near" rather than "at." Do I expect to be hired into a managerial or a director position with the experience I have? Absolutely not? But I am hoping that with experience, a certificate (even an online one), and a good interview, I can at least start with a salary near the upper end of the range that's offered for entry level, and maybe walk into a position with my employer saying to themselves "we'll want to watch this guy, he's got potential."
And as far as culture and history goes, I'm well aware that it's not all Edo castles and paper walls. One of the things I love about Japan is that it is a country that's fully modernized without having been significantly westernized - I think the way it's grown parallel to other developed nations is fascinating. I get as much of a kick out of its covered shopping arcades and bladerunneresque skylines as I do the old streets of Kyoto.
I just finished an interview with Border Link, and they have me scheduled for the second tomorrow night. They seemed pretty pleasant, but I have heard they have a pretty dodgy reputation, so I'm on guard but not totally put off. At this point, with these goals and expectations in mind, should I accept a position with them if offered one? |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| People are going to say the opposite, but I advise you to take it. Once you get that VISA it's yours to do with as you please for the remainder of the year. Also, there's nothing to stop you from continuing your search from abroad. If you get something better, you can just turn them down at a later point and take the better job. What's the salary with them btw? Do they pay %100 salary twelve months of the year? |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
People have given some great advice but I still feel like you're selling Japan short.
It's far from easy, you can't come on over on a boat with a degree in hand and be sure to land a $40,000 job, but where can you do that these days?
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| Japan is the worst country one cold target as a viable TEFL destination now. |
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You've got that wrong. Japanese TEFL contracts are among the least lucrative in the Asian EFL industry, if you account for cost of living.
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| Not a lot of history here either. Outside of Kyoto and rural areas, everything is new. |
Comments like the above are clearly not grounded in any version of reality that I'm aware of.
I know people who have got direct hire contracts after one year in country. It's a little optimistic to expect that to definitely happen to everyone I admit, but there's no reason someone who's taught here a couple years and learnt a bit of Japanese can't get a direct hire position at a BOE or school. The average salary of these positions is about 3.5 Million yen a year with health insurance and pension paid but you can find better ones.
Whether or not a long term career is viable isn't really that relavent because the OP made clear that he only wishes to stay to gain a few years experience before going for a DELTA, sounds like a perfectly reasonable plan to me. I have no reason to believe that he won't be able to accomplish that, have a good time and save some money while he's doing it. |
[/quote]
Not all my quotes. I do stand behind the historical part. But that isn't Japan's fault, it is a result of WWII.
I said, you can get to OK. Past that it is hard. Even OK, is a bit hard to get to. I take this stance, being a bit negative, as I feel that most people coming here have the "WOW JAPAN" blinders on. While in other areas people have a bit more reasonable expectations. |
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kzjohn
Joined: 30 Apr 2014
Posts: 277
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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My uni may be an unusual case (in that they give part timers so many classes), but a couple of the part timers teach 11-12 classes per week. (I'm sure they self-sponsor.)
Figure 11 koma, times maybe 9,000/class, means they're making almost 400,000/month (for the months they're teaching). And they may have other classes around town besides. And tho they don't make that between terms, OTOH they have 7 weeks off & completely free in the summer, and more like 8 in the winter. (I have to hang around and check in daily, go to meetings, and some other admin stuff, unless I submit an official leave request, and even then, they'd hardly approve 2 weeks off, let alone 7.)
I know of people in Tokyo that build similarly full schedules, but instead of getting their classes at one school, they use several or more. Lots of commuting tho.
The point: With your qualifications, this should be (become?) an option for you, if it's something you'd accept doing. |
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RM1983
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| A CELTA is not that higher level qual if you ask me. Lots of people here are getting Tesol MAs it seems. Id get your cert, and work like crazy on devloping your teaching, japanese and network.After a few years you might be ready for a "high level" job. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| kzjohn wrote: |
| The point: With your qualifications, this should be (become?) an option for you, if it's something you'd accept doing. |
John, the OP currently has a few years of experience in China, a BA, and an online cert, and that's it, and is asking for advice about getting a first job in Japan, applying from abroad. I don't think getting 11 koma at universities is in the picture at this point. It is good for the OP to know that this may be an option down the road, after a period of networking and after getting an MA in Applied Linguistics or TESOL, but not right away. |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:08 am Post subject: |
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It's perfectly possible to be on 400,000 yen a month from your second year onwards.
It doesn't happen to the majority, but it does happen. |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: |
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I do not believe it.
To make 400,000 a month I would have to teach 16 koma a week.
Putting together a weekly schedule at different schools is very hard.
Lots of schools are really stingy now and just give 2 or 4 koma.
Plus try teaching reading and writing. It is not just those easy speaking classes.
Try teaching 32-38 students per class or even 40.
Things are not that rosy in Japan.
If you want that kind of money, skip Japan and go to China. |
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RM1983
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Also experience in China might not count for that much. Soon therell be enough teachers migrating with University experience in China for people to realise it isnt worth that much. Plus remember that Japan is totally unique in the world, and usually experience in Japan trumps experience elsewhere |
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