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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Just thought of another three clauses that might save some arguments and lost income for teachers...
"Party B shall be reimbursed for any and all visa costs including related transportation costs if required to travel more than 10 kilometers to obtain a new visa."
"Party B shall not be asked to expend his/her own funds to purchase any class or teaching materials."
"Party B shall be provided the same two back to back days off every week".
Last edited by Scrabble King on Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:59 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Scrabble King wrote: |
Trying to stay on point here... Lack of specific clauses in your employment contract will allow you to be exploited by employers in China. This is why most China employment contracts are vague and ambiguous - deliberately by design! YOU ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO SIGN SUCH CONTRACTS NOR THOSE THAT HAVE NO ENGLISH VERBATIM TRANSLATION.
Sign a vague contract without inserting your protective clauses will invite:
- Working dozens of unpaid overtime hours every month
- Losing bonus, sick, and holiday pay
- Being used a marketing monkey to hand out flyers on a street corner
- Working at three different locations in a single day
- Working six days instead of five
- Getting arrested, fined, jailed, and deported for working without a Z visa
- Getting cheated out of housing deposits and air fare reimbursements
- Cheated out of 50% of their paycheck
- Getting late paychecks
- Being assigned split-shift working hours
- Being extorted for money for their invitation and/or release letters
- Having an illegal contract that forfeits their employee rights
- Having their lesson plans and ppts stolen from them and even sold
- Having their passports "held hostage"
- Being a victim of a "bait and switch" scheme
- Having their resume and passport scan sold to identity thieves
- Having their photos used in advertisements without their knowledge
- Having their names attached to fake testimonials
- Being paid reduced pay during a probationary period
- Being tricked into working a bogus "Teacher Internship"
- Being illegally compelled to pay for TEFL training
What is NOT said in China can really cost you a lot of money. Read this and see what I mean: http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=642187 |
… But if you are good and they want you, I think they will concede - at least they did for me. I was then forbidden to show my contract to anyone else. Obviously they did not want my concessions to apply to everyone. Aren’t you special? To be fair to your co-workers, why didn’t you demand that they get the same treatment?
- Working dozens of unpaid overtime hours every month To whom is this happening? Got names?
- Having their lesson plans and ppts stolen from them and even sold That’s a new one.
- Losing bonus, sick, and holiday pay To whom is this happening? Got names?
- Having their resume and passport scan sold to identity thieves Do you really know that this is happening? If so, why haven’t you reported the perpetrators to the authorities?
- Having their photos used in advertisements without their knowledge - Having their names attached to fake testimonials This doesn’t happen on a grand scale.
- Being paid reduced pay during a probationary period If you don’t like the provision, don’t sign the contract.
- Being tricked into working a bogus "Teacher Internship" Tricked? How?
- Being illegally compelled to pay for TEFL training To whom is this happening?
- Being a victim of a "bait and switch" scheme To whom is this happening?
Contractual clauses won't stop any of this. You need to put on your Spider Man Costume and duke it out with the forces of evil. We're counting on you, Spidey. |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
| Scrabble King wrote: |
Trying to stay on point here... Lack of specific clauses in your employment contract will allow you to be exploited by employers in China. This is why most China employment contracts are vague and ambiguous - deliberately by design! YOU ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO SIGN SUCH CONTRACTS NOR THOSE THAT HAVE NO ENGLISH VERBATIM TRANSLATION.
Sign a vague contract without inserting your protective clauses will invite:
- Working dozens of unpaid overtime hours every month
- Losing bonus, sick, and holiday pay
- Being used a marketing monkey to hand out flyers on a street corner
- Working at three different locations in a single day
- Working six days instead of five
- Getting arrested, fined, jailed, and deported for working without a Z visa
- Getting cheated out of housing deposits and air fare reimbursements
- Cheated out of 50% of their paycheck
- Getting late paychecks
- Being assigned split-shift working hours
- Being extorted for money for their invitation and/or release letters
- Having an illegal contract that forfeits their employee rights
- Having their lesson plans and ppts stolen from them and even sold
- Having their passports "held hostage"
- Being a victim of a "bait and switch" scheme
- Having their resume and passport scan sold to identity thieves
- Having their photos used in advertisements without their knowledge
- Having their names attached to fake testimonials
- Being paid reduced pay during a probationary period
- Being tricked into working a bogus "Teacher Internship"
- Being illegally compelled to pay for TEFL training
What is NOT said in China can really cost you a lot of money. Read this and see what I mean: http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=642187 |
… But if you are good and they want you, I think they will concede - at least they did for me. I was then forbidden to show my contract to anyone else. Obviously they did not want my concessions to apply to everyone. Aren’t you special? To be fair to your co-workers, why didn’t you demand that they get the same treatment?
- Working dozens of unpaid overtime hours every month To whom is this happening? Got names?
- Having their lesson plans and ppts stolen from them and even sold That’s a new one.
- Losing bonus, sick, and holiday pay To whom is this happening? Got names?
- Having their resume and passport scan sold to identity thieves Do you really know that this is happening? If so, why haven’t you reported the perpetrators to the authorities?
- Having their photos used in advertisements without their knowledge - Having their names attached to fake testimonials This doesn’t happen on a grand scale.
- Being paid reduced pay during a probationary period If you don’t like the provision, don’t sign the contract.
- Being tricked into working a bogus "Teacher Internship" Tricked? How?
- Being illegally compelled to pay for TEFL training To whom is this happening?
- Being a victim of a "bait and switch" scheme To whom is this happening?
Contractual clauses won't stop any of this. You need to put on your Spider Man Costume and duke it out with the forces of evil. We're counting on you, Spidey. |
Having a written, signed, and sealed contract in your hand will work in your favor when you file a complaint with SAFEA or a claim with the Labor Board in China. Don't forget the school has to put up a 50,000 yuan deposit to cover the cost of the hearing, so they usually settle fairly quick to avoid that expense. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Scrabble Dude<
As soon as you mention contacting SAFEA, you lose ALL credibility. Though in the past you have sworn that SAFEA is located in an IHOP in Beijing or a Motel 6, SAFEA cannot be reached by normal means. So throw that one away. Quit using it.
Labor board? The average FT can't find the local labor board because the people who know where it is and can tell the FT how to get there are the ones who are screwing over the FT. How likely is it that any FT would hire a lawyer to handle a gripe?
Since you are so knowledgeable, why not hang out a shingle and let people pay YOU to solve their problems?
You're a * * artist--- a transparent one.
Another one of your threads got locked. Maybe someone is getting wise to you. |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
Scrabble Dude<
As soon as you mention contacting SAFEA, you lose ALL credibility. Though in the past you have sworn that SAFEA is located in an IHOP in Beijing or a Motel 6, SAFEA cannot be reached by normal means. So throw that one away. Quit using it.
Labor board? The average FT can't find the local labor board because the people who know where it is and can tell the FT how to get there are the ones who are screwing over the FT. How likely is it that any FT would hire a lawyer to handle a gripe?
Since you are so knowledgeable, why not hang out a shingle and let people pay YOU to solve their problems?
You're a * * artist--- a transparent one.
Another one of your threads got locked. Maybe someone is getting wise to you. |
Why do you keep changing your arguments Bud? The OP is about contract suggestions, and so far you have not made any. As usual, you only seem to criticize people who do have some information and ideas to share. Why are you always so crass and negative? You even criticized the guy who sued and won a settlement against Disney English. Why? The only people you support on this forum are old time vets like yourself who agree with you!
And you are dead wrong about accessing SAFEA - I have been to both of their offices in Haidain District (Beijing) and had no problem getting in to see people, get information, and met other foreigners making complaints.
The main offices are in building 5 and building 6 of the Friendship Hotel located at the intersection of 3rd Ring Road and Zhongguancun. Subway line 4 goes to within 100 meters of the entrance to the Hotel (Renmin Station - Exit A2). The only problem with this office is that out of about 100 people that work there, less than 5 speak English. So unless you bring a Chinese friend, be prepared to wait in que for about 30 minutes.
The other SAFEA office is where you apply for and pic up your FEC which is located on Suzhoujie less than 200 meters North of Renmin University's West Gate. Half of the staff their speaks English and the wait is less than 15 minutes. To enter both office locations you will need your passport.
As for the Ministry of Labor, you cannot get in without an appointment but when you write and request and appointment you will get one - at a time they pick whether it is convenient for you or not.
If your employer committed a criminal act you can either write to the Minister of Justice with a WRITTEN complaint or to the Procuriate's Office closet to the offender location with your written complaint. Verbal lip service will get you nowhere. When foreigners file complaints in China, the people at these office do their jobs because they know we can make a lot of noise and problems. None of them want to be found NOT doing their job - just in case publicity comes into play (ie Wei Bo) Here is the address for the Ministry of Justice:
Honorable Wu Aiying
Minister of Justice
Minisrty of Justice, the People's Republic of China
No.10 Nandajie, Chaoyangmen,
Chaoyang District, Beijing 100020, China
Here is a link to the current labor laws in English:
http://www.npc.gov.cn/englishnpc/Law/2007-12/12/content_1383754.htm
The quickest way to get your employer to settle disputes with you is to ask them for a copy of their license and tax identification number. Why? Because most all of them know a visit from the tax authorities will cost them a 50,000 yuan bribe or worse. Many private schools and learning centers are not even licensed to hire foreigners. (You can find out by visiting the SAIC office located 300 meters West of the the Canadian International School about 1,500 meters from Tunajiehu subway station line 10) A clerk there will ask you for the either the license number or the Chinese name of the registered school and you will know within 15 minutes if that school is a)properly licensed and b)authorized to hire foreigners.
Getting back to the tax authorities... The provincial tax authority and municipal tax authority will send an "auditor" to your school within 15 days of you making a report (Great service eh?). You probably will need to find a new job next year, but rest assured you will get every dime they owe you and a release letter free of charge when your contract ends.
The Beijing Tax Bureau is located on Subway line four walking distance from Chegongzhuang West subway station at:
8 Chegongzhuang Street,
Xicheng, Beijing, China
Tel: 86 10 8837 1701
They also have a snitch program and will pay rewards and accept written reports by fax and email.
Lastly, if you suspect or know that your Principal is corrupt, you can file a complaint with the party and send a copy to "Wang QiShan" and email copies to the parents. You will have a new principal within 45-60 days. Quicker if you send your complaint in English. Send it by COURIER so they know you can prove delivery.
He Guoqiang
National Bureau of Corruption Prevention of China
NO.2 Guang'An Men Nan Jie,
Xuanwu Disrict,
Beijing 100053
If your school is falsely claiming to be "affiliated" or "partners" with some famous university, they will get hammered with a huge fine and if they are already on probation for another ethical violation can lose their license and the people that care the most about this is the Ministry of Education which probably cares for the sake of their public image. Again if you do not write a detailed complaint, nothing will happen. Verbal jabber is worthless in China when making formal complaints - like most any other country as well.
Honorable Yuan Guiren
Minister of Education
No.37 Damucang Hutong,
Xidan, Beijing, P.R.C
100816
Lawyers in China are a last resort for people lacking the balls to confront their employers (polite but directly - in private, and if necessary - in public) If they see you know the law and the people that enforce it, paying/giving you what is owed or was promised becomes the easiest and less costly option for them.
Then of course, you be can be like Bud and just criticize and dissuade everyone for standing up for themselves and just take it up the a*s. I twice used the services of SAFEA and when you go in person you get quick results if you are polite and friendly. If you go in with an attitude and make demands, you'll get your complaint dismissed - after your visa expires and without explanation is not renewed.
I am not a lawyer and you don't need to be one either. My Chinese wife is an HR Compliance Officer and her father works for the City of Beijing. All of the above is common knowledge to Chinese professionals. |
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drjtrekker
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| UGH, AGAIN. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:34 am Post subject: |
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"...They also have a snitch program and will pay rewards and accept written reports by fax and email...
What do I get if I fly an F-35 into China?
Please give me the phone number of your contact at SAFEA. Send it to me through a PM with your name so I can reference it. |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Don't forget the school has to put up a 50,000 yuan deposit to cover the cost of the hearing, so they usually settle fairly quick to avoid that expense |
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That's interesting. I don't suppose you have a link about hearings. Is this something you've been told/ read, or is there something official somewhere to support it?
I'm not having a pop at you. Just curious about where this information comes from. |
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nashboroguy2
Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:21 am Post subject: Vacation Work |
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| I have seen some contracts that claim that I can not work during the holiday breaks. Actually, you can. So, I have it placed in my contract that I get my holiday pay as promised in the contract. And, as long as my summer/winter work does not conflict with my school's schedule, I am able to earn more money. This way, I am able to work camps during the breaks. |
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nashboroguy2
Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:39 am Post subject: Flight Reimbursement |
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| I have employers change the wording to "End of contract bonus". I may or may not use that money to go home after the contract. But, I still want the money. So, by changing the terminology, I know I should get the money at the end of the contract. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| And you are dead wrong about accessing SAFEA - I have been to both of their offices in Haidain District (Beijing) and had no problem getting in to see people, get information..... |
Scrabble Dude is right on the money, True dat is jus wher he done said it was. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Huggies,
Not everyone can go to Beijing to ask SAFEA to save a sinking ship. I think that a phone number is best. Why not get your alleged HR wife to make a call to get the name and number of someone who actually speaks English at SAFEA? Is that not a fair question to pose to someone who has the answers to everything Chinese and then some?
BTW, I didn't ask about the tax office. |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| vikeologist wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Don't forget the school has to put up a 50,000 yuan deposit to cover the cost of the hearing, so they usually settle fairly quick to avoid that expense |
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That's interesting. I don't suppose you have a link about hearings. Is this something you've been told/ read, or is there something official somewhere to support it?
I'm not having a pop at you. Just curious about where this information comes from. |
Hey Vike, glad to help since you never disrespect people here on the forum and always have good ideas and contributions...
First the rules of the game changed twice. First on May 1, 2008 when President Hu Jintao signed the new Labor Law & Arbitration Act, and then again when President Xi JinPing amended our employee rights by making them equal to Chinese rights in late 2012 or early 2013 (can't recall right now) with the "Equal Rights Law". But so much of the stuff on the internet and even some government web sites stills show the old 1995-1996 laws which have been superseded. So be sure to rely on the current laws at the Ministry of Labor and at National Library. Most all of the details about arbitration hearings is well-hidden from us and only found in Chinese on the Ministry of Labor And Social Security web site at
Website： www.mohrss.gov.cn and www.molss.gov.cn (now being updated)
But if you actually make an appointment and go there, they will give you copies of the guidelines and complaint forms. Without an appointment you will not get past the front gate. (Be sure to bring your passport) When you ask to make an appointment in your email, say you want to meet with Ms. Cui Huilie (top inspector) and you will get to meet with her assistant unless your case is on Wei Bo or the local news media.
Mimistry of Labor And Social Security
Adress：No.3, Heping Dongjie
Dongcheng District, Beijing
China, 100013
Tel：86-10-84201116
Email：[email protected]
However, 2 or 3 times a year Amcham and the CFTU both have seminars on labor dispute resolution and they pass out a lot of free stuff in English. Amcham charges an entrance fee (150 yuan) and the CFTU seminars are always free for members and a guest - 50 yuan for others. They both have guest speakers from law firms like this one here which also may answer an email from you.
http://www.dwt.com/advisories/Overview_of_Chinas_New_Labor_Dispute_Mediation_and_Arbitration_Law_01_29_2008/
BUT... Arbitration is only the way to go if you are going up against a big international company. If you are going against a Chinese company you have to remove the word "binding" from "binding arbitration" in your contract because it will prevent you from filing a law suit as well if you don't. The big downside on arbitration is how arbitrators are selected. Too complicated to explain here. The very best and most current article that explains the process is here:
http://www.clb.org.hk/en/content/chinas-labour-dispute-resolution-system
Note that only 35% of arbitration claimants actually win their disputes. In courts, the plaintiff's win more than 60% of the claims at present which is more than double of just three years ago. But in Chinese courts you are not allowed to represent yourself and even a new lawyer will charge you at least 5,000 yuan to file a claim.
The good news is that once you make formal complaints with the arbitration board and courts, and you give copies to your principal or tape a copy on the school wall or elevator, you WILL get what is rightfully owed to you. It is simply cheaper to pay you and they absolutely don't want parents of students to know they cheat their own teachers. In reality, they know from experience that maybe 95% of the teachers just take the screwing and disappear, mostly out of ignorance.
Another good trick I learned at the CFTU seminar was to take a well-documented and detailed complaint and at the top of the page type in bold 72pt. letters "NEWS RELEASE" and fax it to the the people below and your school's office (In Chinese is even better)
Xin Changxing, Director of the General Office
Yin Chengji, Deputy Director of the General Office (director-level)
Phone Number of News Release Office: 86-10-84207636 Fax: 84208636
A friend of ours who got screwed over by Webb for 15,000 yuan used this trick and got paid the very next day. But any complaint filed against an employer will mean you are history when the contract ends. Also important: There is a 60 day statute of limitation to file your claims. They must be RECEIVED within 60 days of the offense.
There is yet another way to get a third and fourth bite of the apple for free IF you live is top tier city like Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, etc. which all have their own municipal labor bureaus and a conflict resolution system that takes foreigners seriously. And of course, every Provincial government has a Labor Dispute Board. The more letters and calls your swindling school has to deal with, the sooner you will get paid IMO.
The most important thing I learned at the seminar is that when you go through Arbitration, the burden of proof is on you. But when you go through the Courts, the burden of proof is on the employer.
I got a big pdf file in English from the CFTU for free about all the rules and procedures for making labor board claims at the top central government level, and it seems it is deliberately designed to be a convoluted process to dissuade people from making waves. Remember Chinese were raised to be "harmonious". But I personally believe that in China the "squeaky wheel" gets the grease and that "press release" tricks works like a charm. If by some odd chance that it does not, be prepared to fill out about 30 pages of forms. Disregard all of the above if you have no Z visa - filing any complaint will just expedite your own arrest and deportation.
Making friends with a local Chinese who works in HR for a large company will also give you access to free advice, tips, and updates. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:21 am Post subject: |
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Scrabble,
Your whining about not being respected is laughable.
And you won't provide a phone number for SAFEA where someone actually speaks English because you CAN'T. |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
Scrabble,
Your whining about not being respected is laughable.
And you won't provide a phone number for SAFEA where someone actually speaks English because you CAN'T. |
Bud... your own computer, search engine, and fingers probably work as well as mine. Get busy. I am not your servant pal.
Last edited by Scrabble King on Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:52 am; edited 2 times in total |
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