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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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 Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Of course, SearchingChina is likely limiting his/her sights to China only, so possibly never any need to deal with the 'world gone madness' of a CELTA.
So long as you never hope to teach EFL elsewhere. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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IELTS testing is the same thing as the BC. |
This is also inaccurate. IELTS is a Cambridge examination run at different test centers across the world, including many others apart from the BC. Their requirements, one of which is a CELTA or equiv, are not the same as the British Council's. Just 6 sessions of IELTS, by the way, would more than pay for a CELTA.
You're showing quite a lot of ignorance about TEFL in general, which is fine, as someone else said if you want to stay doing entry level jobs in China. Don't start calling people who want to improve themselves 'fools' , however, just because they want to act differently to your rather narrow view of things. |
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SearchingChina
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
| Quote: |
IELTS testing is the same thing as the BC. |
This is also inaccurate. IELTS is a Cambridge examination run at different test centers across the world, including many others apart from the BC. Their requirements, one of which is a CELTA or equiv, are not the same as the British Council's. Just 6 sessions of IELTS, by the way, would more than pay for a CELTA.
You're showing quite a lot of ignorance about TEFL in general, which is fine, as someone else said if you want to stay doing entry level jobs in China. Don't start calling people who want to improve themselves 'fools' , however, just because they want to act differently to your rather narrow view of things. |
Take a look at the name of the forum.
Now, who in China does IELTS testing? I'm not really interested how it's done in Honduras, Poland, or Indonesia.
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Without a CELTA or equivalent, you're basically limited to the parts of Asia that require no cert at all. Europe, Latin America, and Anglophone countries generally all expect a CELTA or equivalent as a basic entry level qualification. Without one, your CV simply gets nowhere.
This would be one of the reasons that experience teaching in Asia isn't always valued on other job markets. Just having done the job is absolutely no guarantee that you've done it well. And most parts of the world don't care if you're blonde and good looking, so that won't help.
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Why anyone would want to teach in any of those countries, let alone pay an outfit like yours $1500 for the priviledge is beyond me. At least in Asia ESL wages afford one a decent quality of life, even if you can't save much. In Europe, you'll be on sustinence level wages and hardly ever be able to have any fun. Salaries over there are worse than most Asian countries combined with a cost of living that is 2x to 4x higher. So I ask again...there's competition for this??
If I wanted to only earn enough to eat 3 meals a day and live in a shared apartment, I'd go back to my native land and sign on for state benefits, thanks. That also comes with the added benefit of guaranteed 'pay' on time and no 40 hour work week! |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| No, we aren't all on subsistence wages in Europe-tho it takes qualifications to get the better jobs. Nor do most of us work anything like 40 hour weeks. Not that it matters to you, given that you are so anti qualifications. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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bograt wrote:
Quote:
IELTS testing is the same thing as the BC.
This is also inaccurate. IELTS is a Cambridge examination run at different test centers across the world, including many others apart from the BC. Their requirements, one of which is a CELTA or equiv, are not the same as the British Council's. Just 6 sessions of IELTS, by the way, would more than pay for a CELTA.
You're showing quite a lot of ignorance about TEFL in general, which is fine, as someone else said if you want to stay doing entry level jobs in China. Don't start calling people who want to improve themselves 'fools' , however, just because they want to act differently to your rather narrow view of things.
Take a look at the name of the forum.
Now, who in China does IELTS testing? I'm not really interested how it's done in Honduras, Poland, or Indonesia.
Quote:
Without a CELTA or equivalent, you're basically limited to the parts of Asia that require no cert at all. Europe, Latin America, and Anglophone countries generally all expect a CELTA or equivalent as a basic entry level qualification. Without one, your CV simply gets nowhere.
This would be one of the reasons that experience teaching in Asia isn't always valued on other job markets. Just having done the job is absolutely no guarantee that you've done it well. And most parts of the world don't care if you're blonde and good looking, so that won't help.
Why anyone would want to teach in any of those countries, let alone pay an outfit like yours $1500 for the priviledge is beyond me. At least in Asia ESL wages afford one a decent quality of life, even if you can't save much. In Europe, you'll be on sustinence level wages and hardly ever be able to have any fun. Salaries over there are worse than most Asian countries combined with a cost of living that is 2x to 4x higher. So I ask again...there's competition for this??
If I wanted to only earn enough to eat 3 meals a day and live in a shared apartment, I'd go back to my native land and sign on for state benefits, thanks. That also comes with the added benefit of guaranteed 'pay' on time and no 40 hour work week! |
Yeah, why would anyone want to teach in France or Italy or dumps like that when you can live and work in Shenzhen? I know only the BC does IELTS testing in mainland China but I was talking about the bigger picture for the OP which might, you know one day involve leaving China. I notice by the way that you've conveniently chosen to ignore my example of getting lucrative work in Hong Kong. Does that not count as Asia?
There's a whole load of people just like you on the Korea boards. Now they're all bellyaching about stagnating wages, Korean employers not respecting experience, Korean governmeent raising the bar on public school entry, female newbies getting jobs over them, the high cost of qualifications etc... A ton of EFL teachers without any forward thinking, arguing that experience should trump qualifications and too proud/stubborn to accept they were wrong. The more adventurous ones left Korea to come over to China and will be complaining about the same things there in a few years time. Anyway stick with the mindset, just results in less competition for us for the decent jobs.  |
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thechangling
Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Does a BA in Linguistics give any advantage over having a Celta or Trinity when it comes to getting hired (for a decent salary)?
The Celta teaches us how to teach ESL, whereas the BA (and later on the MA) in Linguistics teaches the theory and background of language composition right? Is this why the Celta and Trinity are more highly rated? Is this about right, what do you guys think and have experienced? |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Does a BA in Linguistics give any advantage over having a Celta or Trinity when it comes to getting hired (for a decent salary)?
The Celta teaches us how to teach ESL, whereas the BA (and later on the MA) in Linguistics teaches the theory and background of language composition right? Is this why the Celta and Trinity are more highly rated? Is this about right, what do you guys think and have experienced? |
Again it all depends. A BA in Linguistics might give you a slight advantage in a country like Korea where I think they pay more in public school jobs if you have a 'related' BA.
Generally universities care less about practical training and more about BAs and MAs in theory so it might give you an advantage there.
In the majority of countries language schools want to see some evidence that you can get in front of a class and keep them interested and occupied without asking for refunds so a BA in linguistics would be a bit of an irrelevance. |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
Again it all depends. A BA in Linguistics might give you a slight advantage in a country like Korea where I think they pay more in public school jobs if you have a 'related' BA.
Generally universities care less about practical training and more about BAs and MAs in theory so it might give you an advantage there.
In the majority of countries language schools want to see some evidence that you can get in front of a class and keep them interested and occupied without asking for refunds so a BA in linguistics would be a bit of an irrelevance. |
This.
If you've already got a BA or MA in linguistics, then the CELTA, Trinity, or SIT would nicely compliment your theoretical knowledge of language with practical training in how to teach a language class. |
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3701 W.119th
Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 386
Location: Central China
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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I chose the CELTA because I had no previous teaching experience, but was pretty sure it was something I wanted to pursue for at least a few years. If I didn't like teaching abroad, no big deal, I could just come home and return to my old job. CELTA seemed to offer the best grounding in teaching English as a second/foreign language. I don't regret it all. I was more interested in which initial training course could help me on the way to actually becoming a good teacher, rather the minimum I could land a job with. To get a job in China, you don't need much more than white skin (don't even need that), and the ability to form semi-coherent sentences (don't even really need that).
To answer the OP, the CELTA is challenging the first two weeks, but eases up once you get into the swing of it. It's not 'hard'. It's more about the volume of information and techniques you're expected to take in, and then demonstrate in TP, which can be a bit of a shock if you've been out of education for a long time. Just be prepared to put your normal life on hold for a month (including at least one full day Saturday or Sunday). I would spend around 4 hours at home each night - Monday-Thursday - on lesson plans (reducing to 3 over the last 10 days or so, as you get smarter around planning), take Friday night off, then use either Saturday or Sunday for my assignments (9am-6pm, with breaks). It's only 4 weeks though. Flies in. If you're organised, plan ahead, and stay on top of the work, its really nowhere near as bad as some make out. It's actually really good fun.
I had no teaching experience going in, and very little understanding of grammar (as far as teaching it). I threw myself into the course though, listened to and acted on every bit of feedback my tutors gave me (a lot), participated fully in each input session and group feedback, and was able to get a Pass B. It's doable for anyone with reasonable intelligence and a good attitude. I'd highly recommend the course.
EDIT: Just to add, incase any newbies are reading this, I'm generally quite a quiet/reserved guy, but don't let that put you off teaching here if you are the same. That was one of my concerns before I started. The dancing clown act plays well with management in China, but isn't required to be a good teacher. Your students will (mostly) spot a clown from a proper teacher very quickly. |
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The_Big_White_Elephant
Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the great replies everyone! This thread has been very helpful.
Another question I have: does CELTA provide any kind of job support? Or are you completely on your own once you finish? |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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CELTA and equivalent providers can usually put you in contact with reputable employers in their own regions. As always in the real world, you are then on your own to create a CV and cover letter, send them out, interview in person and possibly do a demo lesson, and negotiate contract terms.
Those 'job placement' thingies in the adverts are almost every time a scam, unless it's International House or another chain that 'places' teachers in its own schools.
Otherwise, 'job placement' or 'support' is always just giving you a list of local employers, hopefully reputable.
If some CELTA competitor is offering this I'd grill them intensively on exactly what they are offering. It's unlikely to be highly valuable. |
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