|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Amsterdam42
Joined: 15 Feb 2015
Posts: 5
|
 Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:41 pm Post subject: Chances for Dutch citizens finding an English teaching job? |
 |
|
Hello everyone!
I'm new here and wish to find some info about finding English teaching jobs in Saudi Arabia (preferably in Jeddah). I'd like to present a brief profile of myself first and wish to hear your experiences and knowledge about the chances getting a job and the approximate salary I could get.
Gender: Male
Citizenship: Dutch
Age: 26
Marital status: Single/Unmarried
Bachelor's degree: BA Religious studies (specialization: Islam)
Master's degree: MA Islamic Studies (This MA allows graduates to teach both high school and master's students in The Netherlands)
TEFL: 200 hours TEFL/TESOL
IELTS: 7
TOEFL: 98
Experiences:
- 1 year: Research Assistant at a university (Teaching BA/MA classes, doing research, contacting international professors for conferences). (English)
- 5 years: Passenger's Assistance at an International Airport (part time, English)
- 8 years: Educational & teaching positions at various institutions: (homework assistance, giving lectures about history and religion in front of both youngsters and adults, teaching language classes: Arabic & English)
- No experience with TEFL certificate, because I completed this course a month ago.
Thank you very much in advance! 
Best regards, |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Chances for Dutch citizens finding an English teaching j |
|
|
| You can certainly apply to any of the entry-level positions you feel you're qualified for that are listed on the Cafe's job board (http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/) and on other TEFL sites. But frankly, your lack of TEFL experience and nationality are very likely to be an issue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| If you're a near native speaker and are married to another native speaker who is teaching, the chances are very good, about 7000 Riyals monthly, housing and transportation paid. If a near native speaker but not married like above, about 5000 Riyals monthly at a private elementary school or one of the fake international schools that abound in Riyadh. 5000 after you consider transportation and housing costs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| If things don't work out for you in Saudi Arabia, you might want to explore opportunities in some of the Islamic countries in North Africa or Asia where you could get a couple of years of experience that would enhance your prospects with Saudi companies in the future. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| plumpy nut wrote: |
| If a near native speaker but not married like above, about 5000 Riyals monthly at a private elementary school or one of the fake international schools that abound in Riyadh. 5000 after you consider transportation and housing costs. |
Which is a piddly $1350 per month. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Amsterdam42
Joined: 15 Feb 2015
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you all for your replies, your words made me wiser!
As you said, 5000 isn't so much at all compared to my current salary, but I really want to experience KSA at this moment. 
I've some more questions after your responses in case I get an interview, so I can use these when talking to an employer:
- How about the salary growth in KSA?
- and housing/transportation costs; do they usually provide these?
- Are your thoughts of approximate 5000 ryal without any allowance?
Kind regards, |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In your case, I would certainly want to understand your motivation in seeking an English teaching job in KSA and specifically in Jeddah. I imagine your reasons for your interest in such a job in such a place have very little to do with a burning desire to actually teach English. If that is the case, you should be aware of the following:
1. Your academic background will actually be a hindrance rather than an advantage in seeking an ESL job. Nor will your background assist you in getting an Arabic teaching job (for different reasons, but with the same result).
2. Especially in KSA (not so much in other parts of the ME), you will be considered an “Orientalist”, a مـسـتــشـرق which is very close to being considered an “idolater”, a مـشـرك so keep that in mind.
In other words, your academic training will not be looked upon with admiration (in general), but with suspicion.
I realize you haven’t asked about this particular angle to your job interests, but I think it is an aspect of your academic credentials that you should be aware of and cannot be avoided in any realistic discussion of your case. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Amsterdam42 wrote: |
I've some more questions after your responses in case I get an interview, so I can use these when talking to an employer:
- How about the salary growth in KSA?
- and housing/transportation costs; do they usually provide these?
- Are your thoughts of approximate 5000 ryal without any allowance? |
Plumpy Nut will have to respond your questions about which private elementary and fake international schools he thinks you can get work at. Frankly, those places usually hire locally (those already in country under sponsorship) and not from abroad, which is why the pay is low. Plus, their first choice to fill positions will be Saudis due to the country's major push for Saudization.
As for salary growth, housing, etc., it's impossible to say, but most job ads list salary ranges and qualifications. But as I stated in my initial post, you really need to apply for positions first to see if any employer will take you as a complete newbie with a passport from Europe and degrees unrelated to TEFL. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Amsterdam42
Joined: 15 Feb 2015
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hash wrote: |
In your case, I would certainly want to understand your motivation in seeking an English teaching job in KSA and specifically in Jeddah. I imagine your reasons for your interest in such a job in such a place have very little to do with a burning desire to actually teach English. If that is the case, you should be aware of the following:
1. Your academic background will actually be a hindrance rather than an advantage in seeking an ESL job. Nor will your background assist you in getting an Arabic teaching job (for different reasons, but with the same result).
2. Especially in KSA (not so much in other parts of the ME), you will be considered an “Orientalist”, a مـسـتــشـرق which is very close to being considered an “idolater”, a مـشـرك so keep that in mind.
In other words, your academic training will not be looked upon with admiration (in general), but with suspicion.
I realize you haven’t asked about this particular angle to your job interests, but I think it is an aspect of your academic credentials that you should be aware of and cannot be avoided in any realistic discussion of your case. |
Wow I never thought about this. I'm born Muslim, and both of my parents aren't Dutch at all. I guess I should mention this in an interview?
Concerning my motivation shortly; I always admired the English language and have been using it since my bachelor's till today at the university and the airport. I have been teaching English language (though without TEFL training) since I'm 18 and I LOVE it, which I can prove with official reference letters. And I've been in KSA before for umrah, which is one of the reasons why I chose to search for an ESL job there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Amsterdam42 wrote: |
| Wow I never thought about this. I'm born Muslim, and both of my parents aren't Dutch at all. I guess I should mention this in an interview? |
That likely changes the dynamic in your favor, at least in terms of your academic credentials not being viewed suspiciously. That being said, you still have to convincingly address the questions surrounding your (1) Dutch passport, (2) unrelated degrees, and (3) lack of post TEFL-certificate experience.
| Amsterdam42 wrote: |
| Concerning my motivation shortly; I always admired the English language and have been using it since my bachelor's till today at the university and the airport. I have been teaching English language (though without TEFL training) since I'm 18 and I LOVE it, which I can prove with official reference letters. And I've been in KSA before for umrah, which is one of the reasons why I chose to search for an ESL job there. |
These types of things plus, possibly, your Muslim heritage, need to be spelled out clearly in your resume/cover letter. Your credentials, as presented in your original post, leave plenty of room for others to grossly misinterpret who you are and what motivates you. Obviously, the truth is much different than what your first impression suggested. You don't want to leave prospective employers guessing and, then, jumping to incorrect conclusions. That's a surefire way to send your application to the round file before it ever gets seriously considered. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Amsterdam42 wrote: |
| I'm born Muslim, and both of my parents aren't Dutch at all. I guess I should mention this in an interview? |
These types of things plus, possibly, your Muslim heritage, need to be spelled out clearly in your resume/cover letter. |
Stating that you're a Muslim on your cover letter, CV, or during an interview won't make any difference; there are lots of Muslims from every corner of world teaching in KSA. Besides, it will be obvious to employers given your university degrees. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Amsterdam42 wrote: |
| I'm born Muslim, and both of my parents aren't Dutch at all. I guess I should mention this in an interview? |
These types of things plus, possibly, your Muslim heritage, need to be spelled out clearly in your resume/cover letter. |
Stating that you're a Muslim on your cover letter, CV, or during an interview won't make any difference; there are lots of Muslims from every corner of world teaching in KSA. Besides, it will be obvious to employers given your university degrees. |
Hopefully it will be more obvious to prospective employers than it was to Hash:
| hash wrote: |
1. Your academic background will actually be a hindrance rather than an advantage in seeking an ESL job. Nor will your background assist you in getting an Arabic teaching job (for different reasons, but with the same result).
2. Especially in KSA (not so much in other parts of the ME), you will be considered an “Orientalist”, a مـسـتــشـرق which is very close to being considered an “idolater”, a مـشـرك so keep that in mind. |
The main value in making it clear that he's a Muslim is to refute any misconceptions like those stated above. But, as you've suggested, Nomad, perhaps that's not really a concern. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Amsterdam42 wrote: |
- and housing/transportation costs; do they usually provide these?
- Are your thoughts of approximate 5000 ryal without any allowance?
Kind regards, |
The 5000 Riyals is what would be left of your salary after you pay for your apartment and transportation. The type of job you would get wouldn't provide an apartment or transportation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Amsterdam42
Joined: 15 Feb 2015
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you so much you all for your responses. I'm having a clearer picture of the whole now and will take all your advices into consideration when I apply for a job
I'd like to ask you a last question:
Which (private) schools or institutions would you suggest a person who has my profile? I've looked up the joblist of the website, but didn't manage to find a "non-native" vacancy in Saudi Arabia. Maybe you've some names of places that I could try to contact directly (preferably Jeddah), and start applying for ESL jobs.
Please PM me if you need or leave a comment below (y) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Amsterdam42 wrote: |
| I've looked up the joblist of the website, but didn't manage to find a "non-native" vacancy in Saudi Arabia. |
That’s because there aren’t any such jobs regardless of what you may have heard or read here and elsewhere.
No job will advertize “applications for English teaching positions from non-native speakers welcome”. Employers will indeed hire non-native speakers but only because they can’t find native speakers. They will hire these non-natives only with extreme reluctance, especially if you’re male and seeking an English teaching job.
Further, advising you that your being a Moslem will have no effect on your job application in the context we have been discussing is totally preposterous. Indeed, it will have a massive, immediate and detrimental effect on any application you fill out and submit. I’m not going into details here: I’ve already alluded and hinted at these. You can either believe it or not.
Based on the information you have submitted here, I would say your chances for securing an ESL job in KSA are almost nil. Your qualifications point to an Arabic language teaching job but as I said previously, there’s almost no chance of your securing that sort of job here either (or in the Middle East in general).
You were trained to be an Arabic teacher in the West and specifically in Holland, not an Arabic or English teacher in the East. If the latter is what you really want, I’m afraid you’re going to have to go back to school to re-train always understanding that your non-native English status will always work against you (no matter how good an English teacher you may actually be). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
