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question re subject verb agreement
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Mr. English



Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 298
Location: Nakuru, Kenya

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:19 pm    Post subject: question re subject verb agreement Reply with quote

The sentence that I read is "… electrons are a useful model that explains observations like …". Is the subject of this sentence "electrons", and thus "electrons explain", or "model", and thus "model explains"? I have tried to figure it using Swan's "Practical English Usage" but am unable to find a definitive explanation (though of course it might be there). Thanks for answers. Glorious English!
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr. English,

It's a complex sentence with "electrons" in the independent clause the subject of "are," but in the adjective clause, "that," which refers to "model" is the subject of explains."

So, "explains" needs to be singular to agree with "that" (which refers to the singular "model).

Hope that helps.

Regards,
John
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Mr. English



Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 298
Location: Nakuru, Kenya

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does.
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Mr. English



Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 298
Location: Nakuru, Kenya

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But as I look at it some more, I remain unconvinced. It seems to me that "electrons are" and "electrons explain". The fact that electrons "are a useful model" is fine, and I understand that "that" would usually refer back to the nearest noun, but my sense of the sentence is that electrons are doing the explaining.

Does anyone else have a thought about it?
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psychedelicacy



Joined: 05 Oct 2013
Posts: 180
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The elephant in the room is "a useful model". Think of some other way to describe electrons and the problem disappears - both the grammatical problem and the inaccuracy/awkwardness of characterizing electrons as "a useful model" in the first place.
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esl_prof



Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

psychedelicacy wrote:
The elephant in the room is "a useful model". Think of some other way to describe electrons and the problem disappears - both the grammatical problem and the inaccuracy/awkwardness of characterizing electrons as "a useful model" in the first place.


In other words, you're suggesting the problem is semantic not grammatical, which means that Johnslat is correct. I've checked my grammar books and, as far as I can tell, their explanations appear to be consistent with John's.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, let me put it this way. Let's say you have this sentence:

People are a big part of the problem, which is not going to go away.

"People" is the subject of "are" in the independent clause (everything before the comma).

The relative pronoun "which" refers back to "problem" - not to people (because, of course, "which" can't be used with "people").

"Problem" is singular, so the subject of the adjective clause (which is which - sorry, couldn't resist) is singular, which (there I go again Very Happy) is why the verb "is" in the subordinate adjective clause has to be singular.

You wouldn't want this, would you?

People are a big part of the problem, who are not going to go away. Very Happy

Regards,
John
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AGoodStory



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

But as I look at it some more, I remain unconvinced.


Convince yourself! Johnslat's analysis is correct. Very Happy

.
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water rat



Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:48 pm &nb