Job Discussion Forums

[ghost]

I don't know how large your classes are, but it's highly likely there are a significant percentage of your students who totally dread being in the spotlight at the front of your room, before all their peers, poised to ring a bell, and secretly sure they're going to eff it up and be humiliated in front of all their classmates. Particularly if it means their 'team' loses.

I understand where you are coming from. If students are too shy and absolutely dread speaking in front of the others - no problem - they don't have to do it. I think, overall, though, that students should participate as much as possible and that includes speaking. It is perhaps a harsh baptism for some of them, but after some weeks, they get the hang of it and begin to become accustomed, and in some cases, even relish the chance to 'show off' their English speaking skills to their peers.

I think that is part of the reason, we laowai, are here - that is to offer them Western style teaching approaches which benefit them in the overall scheme of their education. Typically in most Asian countries, most students are passive recipients of the teacher - the laoshi, the sensei, the songsaenim, - and simply receive information. The irony is that if we - laowei (foreigners) teach like that (the Asian style) - the students will rapidly become bored and dread our classes. It is expected of foreign teachers to offer activities and teaching methods which are seldom typical of the local ways of teaching.

My task here is to improve the oral skills of students and to assess them at the end of the semester. I rely, also, on veteran teachers here who can offer suggestions and point me in the right direction. I taught in Saudi Arabia for 6 years, and the dynamic there was so different - the opposite dynamic, in that the students would literally shout you down, given half a chance. Here it sometimes feel like your are pulling teeth - but in a nice, hopefully palatable way.

Ghost in China

[Non Sequitur]

[Sashadroogie]

The communicative approach, a very wide catch-all term, does not relieve or absolve any teachers of the need to teach grammar and lexis. Though this is a common defence erected by some who do not know how to integrate either grammar or vocabulary input into meaningful communicative activities.

What do you mean by the EC? Do you mean the European Community, today's European Union? Or perhaps the Council of Europe?

[Son of Bud Powell]

In the Universities where I have taught that have an English major program, grammar was not needed. They had a good handle on that. What was wanted (and needed) were things that weren't provided by the Chinese curriculum: common idioms, figures of speech, vocabulary, maxims (e.g., proverbial sayings), and the like.

Most of my Chinese students are confounded by many facts of western history and need explanations for why things happened as they did. This is covered either in a class designed specifically for western history, or they are discussed in the Oral English class. (Usually in western history).To spend time conjugating verbs, reviewing general grammar, parts of speech, etc., is usually a colossal waste of time, and the foreign languages department frowns upon it.

There's a very big difference between students who attend language centers in order to get into university programs and students who actually attend established English major university programs.

[Sashadroogie]

Fair enough. But describing most of that as the 'communicative approach' would be quite a stretch.

[Son of Bud Powell]

[Non Sequitur]

[spiral78]

[Non Sequitur]

In an Oral class I don't think so.
Would you really sacrifice a student speech 'I am to the movies going' just for a word order issue.
What is the payoff? Not much and you've probably discouraged a student who was giving it a go.
When my students express frustration about their English I tell them that native speakers are used to accent and other minor problems, because so many speakers are 2nd language.
We are 'enablers' not a high priesthood of insiders.

[Sashadroogie]

I dunno, I dunno. All this talk about communicative approach and all, in classroom contexts which are not conducive to communicative activities, if only for the sheer size of such classes. And now, in addition to being told that grammar and lexis are not required, we find out that accuracy isn't either, nor error correction provided at any stage, it would appear. Exactly what communicative benefits are conferred in this way? How does any of this 'work'?

[spiral78]

[Non Sequitur]

'But your above example isn't really one of them'.

Are you suggesting 'I am to the movies going' is so bad that it must be corrected?
If so, what would you let go?

[spiral78]

As I explain in detail above, yes. I have also given examples of unimportant errors in my last post already. Did you read it?

[ghost]

Grammar is not the focus, as the Chinese teachers usually (always) provide the necessary resources and practice for that. The focus, at this time, for me is to find interesting activities, because many (most?) of the students find many of the lessons in the book are ok, but solely relying on the book would not make for an enjoyable classroom experience.

As mentioned previously, I think most universities expect us (the foreign teachers) to provide interesting and innovative lessons. Not always easy for teachers who may or may not be creative, and also for teachers who are not comfortable manipulating and using technology, as that is where most of the resources will be found. Compounding the problem is that Google is not available in China. Baidu is a cousin to Google, but the resources are not on the same level.

Ghost in China

[Non Sequitur]