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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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 Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| If you work one job at a legit employer and have taxes withheld, after 14k rmb/month or so you start to get a heavy hit from taxes. Basically everything you earn over 14k you lose 25% to taxes if they are withheld. |
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Emp1
Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Just one more reason to have a low hours job that pays comparatively smaller, then you don't get the tax hit and can fill in the other hours with untaxed side work. |
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RW8677
Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Wide ranging question with a wide ranging answer. Friends of mine, a couple both working in Chinese universities but employed by overseas universities with several lucrative earn well north of a million a year, then again I know some poor schmoes scraping by on 100, 000. I know a lot of people in the 300K to 400K range (foreign university salaries), but I once met a guy in Nanjing on 3,500 a month!
If we assume 50,000 gets you a decent enough life style, then, working with a Chinese employer can net savings of 50,000. Foreign employer - different story. I spend like a mofo but can still bank 150,000 with ease |
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RiverMystic
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 1986
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, what a land of milk and honey China is! Why would anybody bother to work anywhere else when saving a billion a year is clearly the norm, according to this thread. Cash is falling from the skies in this place! The Lord giveth, but he doth not taketh away!
Then one looks at the job board and sees the typical salary is far lower than what most here are claiming as savings. Strange, that.  |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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It's not strange at all. Follow what people say and do one of the following:
1) Work for an international school
2) Do a uni job with low hours and then do a lot of private students on the side
3) Work multiple jobs
Options 2+3 are obviously bending the law. 2 is safe. 3 is a little dodgier.
If you know what you are doing you will clear 250,000RMB and upwards.
It's not rocket science. |
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Emp1
Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| RiverMystic wrote: |
Wow, what a land of milk and honey China is! Why would anybody bother to work anywhere else when saving a billion a year is clearly the norm, according to this thread. Cash is falling from the skies in this place! The Lord giveth, but he doth not taketh away!
Then one looks at the job board and sees the typical salary is far lower than what most here are claiming as savings. Strange, that. |
Not exactly a land of milk and honey - you have to put in serious hours for the serious money. Doing 12 hours of uni classes a week isn't going to cut it.
It's fairly simple though, a low hour job + a lot of extra classes through side jobs = big $$$ (for teaching that is...it's not going to impress a lawyer or a banker).
You see that primary school a couple of kilometres down the road from your university? Chances are pretty good they want a foreign teacher. If they don't, the next school will. Instead of sitting on your ass and thinking 'wow man, I'm like...free man...all this time so myself is so good man' you need to be filling in all your extra free time with classes. And you know those 4 months of holidays you get from uni each yeah? Yeah, if you want to be banking serious cash, forget about that. Because you'll be working in a language centre or two over the summer.
I give myself the Spring Festival break off and that's it in terms of holidays. |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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I MUST have holidays from China to get over the place!
That's why doing privates in your home is great. You go away for 6 weeks, then come back and work the last 2 weeks of your paid uni vacation. Usually families want catch up classes and I had kids coming every day of the week for 2 hours a time. I was making 1200RMB a day (plus uni salary obviously) for half a month. 18000RMB for a couple of weeks work paid for my 6 weeks travelling.
Obviously you can make even more in a year by NOT going on holiday (money saved from holiday + additional side pay), but then life is a little monotonous and you start to question what you are doing it all for. (I know the future, but you have to live in the now, too) |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Obviously you can make even more in a year by NOT going on holiday (money saved from holiday + additional side pay), but then life is a little monotonous and you start to question what you are doing it all for. |
You're doing it to help the poor kids, remember  |
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Aristede
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:09 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Emp1"]
| Deats wrote: |
I MUST have holidays from China to get over the place!
I also worry about the gravy train eventually drying up just like it did in Korea, so I prefer to bank the money while it's still avaliable. There's not many places in the world where one can save serious money in ESL...if China falls, then all that's left is the Gulf states (no fucking way). I know it might sound crazy to think the demand could ever dry up right now, but I'm sure the ESL'ers in Korea thought that back in 2004. |
Very good points made, and an interesting thread overall.
I'm getting inspired to go back to China, though two years ago I never thought I would. I see potential for earning a lot more than I previously was. The long hours can be exhausting, but once you get into a routine, it's not so bad. The savings are worth it.
It astounds me when I see people on the board saying they can't save in China, or that a first-tier city consumes everything they earn. I had no problem saving in Shanghai while working at a training center, all the while with a really nice apartment and having groceries delivered every week. And that was when doing minimal overtime. |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Bograt:
If I was offered a job teaching and I wasn't paid (or paid poorly) then I simply wouldn't do the job. If I could choose never to work again, I would.
I like teaching because a) I can make a difference to someone's life and b) I can get well paid.
It's win win. I further people's opportunities in life and they further mine by paying me which gives me money to do what I want.
Simple.
I never overcharge, I never miss lessons, I never go back on commitments I make to the students. My students get value for money.
Twist it however you want, Mother Theresa |
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Emp1
Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Aristede wrote: |
Very good points made, and an interesting thread overall.
I'm getting inspired to go back to China, though two years ago I never thought I would. I see potential for earning a lot more than I previously was. The long hours can be exhausting, but once you get into a routine, it's not so bad. The savings are worth it.
It astounds me when I see people on the board saying they can't save in China, or that a first-tier city consumes everything they earn. I had no problem saving in Shanghai while working at a training center, all the while with a really nice apartment and having groceries delivered every week. And that was when doing minimal overtime. |
The people who can't save here tend to be lazy do-gooders who overprepare for lessons (it's all about the students, not the bank balance!...I lol at these types...the Chinese certainly do behind their back), undercharge for privates, and don't want to work many hours. Combine that with taking the taxi everywhere rather than use the subway, eating in KFC 5 times a week, and drinking most nights, and well...that's the budget gone.
I live a reasonable, but not extravagant life on 4000rmb a month. Every extra yuan earned goes into the savings account. I go to Thailand or the Philippines for bargirls and beer during Spring Festival for a couple of weeks (the 5000rmb a month all in guys will never go to these kind of places, although I'm sure they'll be along soon to tell me I'm a degenerate for daring to enjoy my life while they live their pious, poverty ridden lives in their uni apartment  ) and I'll spend about 20k rmb there, but other than that it's all about savings, savings, savings.
However, I don't think this gravy train will continue forever. Put it this way - a qualified accountant in the UK will be on around 500,000RMB a year (50,000GBP). After taxes however, that's 330,000RMB a year (assuming one has to repay a student loan, something which we avoid in China due to being able to stick 2 fingers up at the Student Loans Company). Deduct another 60,000RMB a year for rent and utility bills, something which most uni teachers get provided for free (and it's not like 60,000RMB a year gets you a particularly great place in the UK either...). So the accountant has 270,000RMB left in his pocket after basic expenses.
The uni teacher in China has 60,000 (6000*10), plus a plane ticket which anyone worth a damn will have them phrase as an end of contract bonus rather than an airfare reimbursement, so call it 70,000RMB in total. But the uni teacher is only working 12-18 hours a week for 36 weeks of the year. If he adds another 20 hours to his weekly schedule through privates/side work at 200rmb a class, that's another 16,000RMB a month he's pulling in...i.e. 192,000 a year extra.
So this unqualified teacher doing a job any idiot can do blindfolded, is now earning the same disposable income as a fully qualified accountant in the UK, a job which requires 3 years of postgraduate qualifications and is immensely harder work than ESL. All this for working 32-38 hours a week for 36 weeks of the year, and 20 hours a week for the remainder of the year. That's before even considering the cost of living difference between China and the UK.
I don't believe a situation like that can last long-term. How can it...there's white collar professionals with real qualifications in real careers who could actually have more money if they jacked it all in and came to China. One day, this country will revert to paying slave wages aimed only at gap year students and backpackers, just like Korea now does, and Thailand has always done. Before Korea, there was Japan where one could apparently score huge money...that's not possible anymore. Eventually people stop with the high demand for English. Might take a while for China to follow suit because the English demand has only relatively recently taken off, and it's such a large country...but mark my words, it will eventually die off as a money making goldmine just like other ESL destinations before it.
The smart ones knuckle down and bank money now, and lots of it. The lazy and the stupid continue to kick back on their 12 lessons a week work schedule and crow about how they're excellent teachers who can spend 10 extra hours a week on their lesson plans. |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| RiverMystic wrote: |
Wow, what a land of milk and honey China is! Why would anybody bother to work anywhere else when saving a billion a year is clearly the norm, according to this thread. Cash is falling from the skies in this place! The Lord giveth, but he doth not taketh away!
Then one looks at the job board and sees the typical salary is far lower than what most here are claiming as savings. Strange, that. |
The quality of the typical "teacher" in China is extremely poor. If you show up to classes on time and sober you are a very desirable commodity. If you also have a teaching license or advanced degrees in relevant fields you are a very desirable commodity for some jobs.
That being said, the people who are really making money here would have horrible schedules. If you are working a uni gig and a bunch of night/weekend classes and working on vacation...well...that sucks. I would never want to do that. Yes, you can make a decent chunk of money but the lifestyle would be horrible. I didn't get into this field to work those kind of hours. I'll stick with teaching high school, banking a modest amount of money, and taking long vacations in cheaper countries.
EDIT:
I should add that the high school scene is very cloak and dagger as far as salaries go. You have to be able to negotiate and be willing to walk away (possibly several times) to get a good salary. It's like bargaining at a clothes store. You also need to network with other teachers to know what people are actually getting paid. The Chinese version of HR is incredibly short-sighted, greedy, and stupid. We are constantly reminded not to tell other teachers how much we make. I thought I had a decent deal coming in and have a much better deal than some teachers, but after a few months here I'm thinking I'll ask for another 5k or so on renewal. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The smart ones knuckle down and bank money now, and lots of it. The lazy and the stupid continue to kick back on their 12 lessons a week work schedule and crow about how they're excellent teachers who can spend 10 extra hours a week on their lesson plans. |
The lazy and the stupid cut corners, take the easy option, break the law and don't look at the bigger picture. You could be making more than you are right now legally for fewer hours if you'd worked harder at making yourself employable and planned ahead better. Like you say, when China finally gets wise to you, you'll be back to square one again. Korea only dried up for loser backpackers like yourself, I was making more than you do now there when I left less than a year ago. legally and for fewer hours too. Now I'm on what your UK accountant makes before tax - again working legally and for fewer hours.
Last edited by bograt on Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:39 am; edited 2 times in total |
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happyinshangqiu
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 279
Location: Has specialist qualifications AND local contacts.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Emp1 wrote: |
I don't believe a situation like that can last long-term. How can it...there's white collar professionals with real qualifications in real careers who could actually have more money if they jacked it all in and came to China. |
Like?
Doctors? Lawyers? Accountants?
We had a lawyer here, he was on less money than me for the same hours of teaching. The Chinese recognise a related qualification when they see one. I know, amazing, right? |
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Emp1
Joined: 25 Mar 2015
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The smart ones knuckle down and bank money now, and lots of it. The lazy and the stupid continue to kick back on their 12 lessons a week work schedule and crow about how they're excellent teachers who can spend 10 extra hours a week on their lesson plans. |
The lazy and the stupid cut corners, take the easy option, break the law and don't look at the bigger picture. You could be making more than you are right now legally for fewer hours if you'd worked harder at making yourself employable and planned ahead better. Korea only dried up for loser backpackers like yourself, I was making more than you do now there when I left less than a year ago. legally and for fewer hours too. Now I'm on what your UK accountant makes after tax - again working legally and for fewer hours. |
So, you'd have us believing you're making 40,000RMB after tax through legal work. It's certainly not teaching ESL if that really is the case and so it's outside the scope of this discussion.
Korea is a big gamble these days. You need to hope your hagwon grants you permission to work at another school part-time (and with the general dickery among ESL bosses, this is far from a guarantee). If they don't you're stuck earning 2.1 million won with no real way to push it higher unless you marry a Korean and can then do all the private tutoring you like. You're not making $4,000 USD a month + apartment if you don't have the F visa and/or you don't have a hagwon that lets you work at other places. Technically you need permission in China too, but as we all know, it's not really enforced, whereas in Korea it is.
But go on, entertain me...exactly what steps does one follow to get this fictional 500,000RMB a year post-tax salary teaching English in China? How does one 'plan ahead' to ensure such an eventuality? The best international schools here are paying 30,000RMB a month so it's going to be funny to see you explain this one.
| happyinshangqiu wrote: |
Like?
Doctors? Lawyers? Accountants?
We had a lawyer here, he was on less money than me for the same hours of teaching. The Chinese recognise a related qualification when they see one. I know, amazing, right? |
I've just given you the example of an accountant. Qualified ACA's at the manager (but not senior manager/VP) level get around 50,000GBP a year (500,000RMB). But take off tax and take off rent and utilities, and you actually discover the guy could be making more teaching in China and loading up on privates and side work. That situation cannot last - it didn't in Korea, it didn't in Japan, and it won't here either. That's why I'm fanatical about banking the maximum amount of cash right now...I'm hoping by the time this all comes crashing down, I'll have saved up enough so that I don't have to worry about stuff like a pension or a mortgage, since I'll have bought a property and put aside enough for retirement already. I've calculated I'll need about 10 more 'good years' for it to work out...not sure if I'll get them or not, but if not there's still no harm in having the goal being partially fulfilled, and those with more money in the bank are in a better position to go back to school and get a trade in a decent career in the west than those who just sat on their arses for 10 years working 12 hours a week. |
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