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akoo1
Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 87
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 Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:59 am Post subject: |
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Should one include a smiling head/shoulder photo in the email application? Is it like Asia where they sometimes choose between similarly qualified teachers by how they look?
I understand the difference between the two visas now. It sounds like the business visa setup is quietly tolerated and suits single people who don't complain much about benefits as they just want to go somewhere where they can make the most cash/hour /day/ /month. Even If that means no medical, etc.. Can't one just pay cash at the clinic if something goes wrong medically? I mean the chances of needing hospitalization are slim anyways to make a huge deal about medical. I mean if you don't have a family and the work visa process is so complicated and expensive as I just read from one of the above links, I can see why certain teachers would go to the business visa route. Despite the obvious drawbacks. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| akoo1 wrote: |
| Should one include a smiling head/shoulder photo in the email application? Is it like Asia where they sometimes choose between similarly qualified teachers by how they look? |
Most KSA employers or hiring agencies now require a copy of your passport picture page as part of the application process. Since this page already has your picture (and date of birth) on it, sending an additional foto of yourself is unnecessary, unless the application FORM itself asks for another picture.
But it's a fact of life that appearances, like age, count.....a lot. This is not only true in Asia (as you state) and KSA (as I state), but world-wide, including Europe and the USA.
In fact, I would say that in MOST cases, appearances (and age) trump experience and credentials, hands down. Someone with 5 years experience with a good appearance will almost certainly get a job over someone with 10 years experience and average looks. This is, of course, not only true in ESL but in just about any field of endeavor. |
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BajaLaJaula
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Now if I could just do something about improving my looks....maybe more job offers would come my way.  |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| In fact, I would say that in MOST cases, appearances (and age) trump experience and credentials, hands down. Someone with 5 years experience with a good appearance will almost certainly get a job over someone with 10 years experience and average looks. This is, of course, not only true in ESL but in just about any field of endeavor. |
Not so. Hoping a direct-hire employer will find you physically attractive enough to overlook your blah teaching experience and degree in oneirology is... a dream. Besides, those prospective employers in the region who do ask for a photo, generally request that it be passport size. As such, job seekers tend to submit the mugshot photo used for their passport, complete with an uber-stern countenance.
Anyway, whatever photo you send, keep in mind that long hair and an earring on males, gobs of makeup, face piercings, missing teeth, and visible tattoos aren't going to win any points. Of course, those contracting companies simply looking to hire warm bodies aren't likely to give a hoot.  |
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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| What employers ask for and what they get are often different ! I have a degree in Social Sciences and a Certificate in TESOL. I was hired by KFUPM. |
i didn't know you were social scot.
grendal |
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Mysterious
Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:04 am Post subject: |
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To the poster: Since you want to come here to mostly save money, I just want you to double check that you're making the right choices. That is, that you understand the cultural and religion aspects of the country. That things like, the call for the 5 daily prayers, and shops shutting for it, will not make you go mental and start slagging off the country.. or mocking women for wearing "ugly" abayas. Or that people moan that they can't see what women are wearing under the abayas (seriously, if people want to stare at what women are wearing, this isn't the place to be...) People come here with the intention to save money (in most cases, especially non Muslims), and then moan and groan non stop and actually come out with some pretty hurtful comments towards the country and the students in general. Both in work and outside of work. I believe people like this should just stay away from the Kingdom.
Not saying you are like this, but just make sure you read a lot about what it's like to live out here first. Saving money doesn't necessarily make people tolerant.
As for.. what the ratio of Non Muslism vs. Muslim teachers is like.. can I ask why this matters? It will vary from city to city and also from job to job. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: General and specific questions about teaching in KSA |
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| akoo1 wrote: |
| Generally in KSA how many Non-Muslim English teachers vs. Muslim English teachers (as a ratio)? |
| Mysterious wrote: |
| As for.. what the ratio of Non Muslism vs. Muslim teachers is like.. can I ask why this matters? It will vary from city to city and also from job to job. |
| akoo1 wrote: |
| The religion of teachers doesn't matter for me either. I just wanted to know generally how many fellow staff members are from the West vs other places. |
Apparently, the OP also doesn't realize Muslims are passport holders from many countries worldwide (including the US, Canada, UK...) rather than from one or two regions of the globe. |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| BajaLaJaula wrote: |
| Now if I could just do something about improving my looks....maybe more job offers would come my way. |
Spend some of your earned money in the KSA on plastic surgery at Bumrungrad Hospital in Thailand. I intend to do that eventually soon. |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Mysterious wrote: |
| That is, that you understand the cultural and religion aspects of the country. That things like, the call for the 5 daily prayers, and shops shutting for it, will not make you go mental and start slagging off the country.. or mocking women for wearing "ugly" abayas. |
Why don't they just simply stop doing that? That is living in the 7th century A.D. It would also be better for them to realize that change is required to avoid the upcoming severe consequences of Western disrespect for their abusive and dysfunctional ways. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| plumpy nut wrote: |
| Mysterious wrote: |
| Or mocking women for wearing "ugly" abayas. |
Why don't they just simply stop doing that? That is living in the 7th century A.D. It would also be better for them to realize that change is required to avoid the upcoming severe consequences of Western disrespect for their abusive and dysfunctional ways. |
You mean why you and other men simply can't stop agitating about women wearing abayas? As a male, it's a nonissue for you since you didn't have to wear one. But seriously, the "upcoming severe consequences of Western disrespect" being brought about by a ridiculous distaste for an article of women's clothing? Khalas. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
But it's a fact of life that appearances, like age, count.....a lot. This is not only true in Asia (as you state) and KSA (as I state), but world-wide, including Europe and the USA.
In fact, I would say that in MOST cases, appearances (and age) trump experience and credentials, hands down. Someone with 5 years experience with a good appearance will almost certainly get a job over someone with 10 years experience and average looks. This is, of course, not only true in ESL but in just about any field of endeavor |
Europe? Not so. Qualifications and experience actually count. Looks might be a factor for absolute entry-level jobs given all else equal. It wasn't the case in Canada either when I worked there. Not that I'm so awful looking but all the literally hundreds of teachers I've known over the past 18 years have been a total mixed bag in terms of looks. It was quals and experience that mattered. |
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Mysterious
Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| plumpy nut wrote: |
| Mysterious wrote: |
| That is, that you understand the cultural and religion aspects of the country. That things like, the call for the 5 daily prayers, and shops shutting for it, will not make you go mental and start slagging off the country.. or mocking women for wearing "ugly" abayas. |
Why don't they just simply stop doing that? That is living in the 7th century A.D. It would also be better for them to realize that change is required to avoid the upcoming severe consequences of Western disrespect for their abusive and dysfunctional ways. |
What's your issue? What's it to do with you? You don't like it, so get out. So many others like myself, love it. I love this way of dressing knowing people like YOU aren't staring, 'cause you seem to go on about it so much (in previous threads), that you make yourself out to be some sort of hungry pervert. I know your narrow minded mind cannot get around it, but there are many Muslims in the west who prefer to wear the abaya, without forcing them to do so, just like the majority in Saudi still prefer to be wearing the abaya. I noticed in a previous thread (that has now been locked), that you mentioned some women that you spoke to would prefer to live elsewhere. I can say this is true for a small minority of women, because all of the Saudi women I've met and come across (being different ages), love their way of living here and wouldn't change it for the world.. and those are the sort that wouldn't want to be speaking to someone like you, anyways. So stop with the moaning and groaning about the 7th century rubbish and deal with it or just leave. Simple. The adhaan is a way of our religion. It's a call to prayer. The culture and religion isn't here for you to change with your narrow minded views.. not realising that people actually strive to live in a place like this (including myself). 
Last edited by Mysterious on Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mysterious
Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| plumpy nut wrote: |
| Mysterious wrote: |
| Or mocking women for wearing "ugly" abayas. |
Why don't they just simply stop doing that? That is living in the 7th century A.D. It would also be better for them to realize that change is required to avoid the upcoming severe consequences of Western disrespect for their abusive and dysfunctional ways. |
You mean why you and other men simply can't stop agitating about women wearing abayas? As a male, it's a nonissue for you since you didn't have to wear one. But seriously, the "upcoming severe consequences of Western disrespect" being brought about by a ridiculous distaste for an article of women's clothing? Khalas. |
Exactly! Thank you.
Also... I was actually in a western country wearing the full abaya and face veil before coming out to Saudi. Wore it in the west for a good 9
years and never got any sort of disrespect. In fact.. the disrespect was shown to women who actually had no respect for themselves.. the examples I saw were women who were severely drunk, on drugs or dressed almost naked. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Mysterious wrote: |
| In fact.. the disrespect was shown to women who actually had no respect for themselves.. the examples I saw were women who were severely drunk, on drugs or dressed almost naked. |
Have you seen this?
Google image search for "male dominated culture"?
Two women in passing, one in a skimpy bikini and sunglasses, the other in a burka, regard another respectively, "Everything covered but her eyes," and "Nothing covered but her eyes," but equally conclude, "What a cruel male-dominated culture!" |
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