Job Discussion Forums

[rioux]

I'm just wondering why college/university positions are advertised as such because working a 14 hour week is much different (for me anyway) than working a 18 hour week.

[7969]

I don't see the connection you're trying to make here. Schools advertise their hours as such because that's how much they expect their teachers to work. Working 18 hours a week isn't much different than 14, other than being four hours less for drinking, sleeping, or watching tv.

[rioux]

[tlkdmc]

I'm sorry, but I'm confused about the point here. Are you saying, they advertised you would only work 14 hours, but you work 18 hours? Why did you sign a contract that conflicts with your expectations? Are you working more hours than agreed upon? If so, why? I work 16 hours a week, because that's what my contract says. I get extra hours depending on my notification to the language department when the new term schedule is created. They give me extra classes only if I ask for them; I get paid extra of course.

If you really have issues between 14 and 18 hours a week doing the simplistic job of Chinese university teaching, then you really shouldn't be doing it in the first place. Despite people coming to China to live it up with alcohol, women, cheap food, running from the law, computer games, internet, and so on, you have to remember one basic thing... you are in the country by permission and invitation to WORK and that must be your number one priority. Contract negotiation is where you justify working hours to fit your leisure time. Four extra hours of this or that is, in my opinion, a bad-fit for someone coming to China. Seeking out such a thing and calling it "much different" is a clear contraindication for working and living.

I have "colleagues" at my university that continually cancels classes via telephone to his class monitors 10 minutes before classes because he decided to take a bus into the city (45 minutes away) to go to the big supermarkets for some shopping on a Wednesday afternoon or to go to the bank to do this or that (same distance trip) on Thursday morning; again, canceling classes. Chinese banks and supermarkets are open 7 days a week. Another teacher took a 9 day trip from Shandong to Beijing to see The Rolling Stones for a one-night show. He canceled and never made-up the classes. The train ride is 2.5 hours one-way and he couldn't manage to make it back in 8 days? In my case, as an opposing view, I do not live on campus as they do, I live 22 km away, with no school bus; so, when I started my job, I bought a simple new Geely car (purchase price plus taxes, etc. etc. it as 38,000 RMB. I drive to school every day, pay for gas, maintenance, and so on, but theese other guys schedule bacon runs during class time and say it was the only time they could find free. They only work 18 hours a week with a guranteed day off during that 5 day work week. I'm lost in their thinking. Let's suffice it to say the are both morbidly obese, smokers, have the typical underweight, nearly anorexic girls all over them and do the rounds. How is that one day off per week (not including Saturday and Sunday as well) click in their minds to do their errands then? Hungover spells, found collapsed and unresponsive at the gate-guard-house from alcohol. My favorite part is the 90 minute class - 35 minutes lesson (movie or some shit), then a 20 minute break and then another 35 minute "lesson." The 20 minute break is a 6-10 cigarette smoke break outside on a balcony, if you're lucky with a half-dozen girls surrounding the guy smoking as well all to kiss ass as be cool. The guys should simply be deported.

Let's shorty state how one of the guys also brought four bottles of Imported liquors - vodka, tequila, gin, rum and decided this lesson was about American Culture (class was actually Speaking Level 1) and proceeded to pass out paper cups and pour them all shots of the bottles. 3 girls and 1 guy vomited on the floor and in case on another girl. That should have been criminal and immediate firing and deporting.

14, 16, 18 hours. All that matters... what did you agree to in your contract? I have plenty of time with my classes, extra (30 hours a week), a wife, a 2+ year old baby, private stuff, entertainment, and so on. Hell, I'm going to Beijing to the Embassy tomorrow morning and those classes were made up two evenings ago in advance

Give us some more facts about your point of view, stats, etc. that help you convince us your overwhelming lifestyle in China under those horrid conditions, please.

Work is always your number one priority when in China, as that is why you are legally living in-country. If you can't resolve 18 (4 extra hours) into a 168 hour week, then you are out of your element.

Can you give us more details to justify and convince us it's necessary?

[rioux]

Contracts that are being offered to me say what I have written in the OP. I haven't signed anything (yet).

Surprised to see the kind of guys you described have such a following. They must be doing something right.

[Deats]

Before signing anything tell the uni you want your contract clarified. Don't sign anything until you are happy with the contract. Often you will hear verbal promises and they will never be delivered. If you wanna work 14 hours then it must say 14 hours. If it says 14, then they must pay you overtime if you work 18.

I actually hate working places with other foreigners as they just p1ss me off something rotten. I can socialise away from work, but I have never had any positive working relationships with foreigners. 95% of EFL teachers are utterly incompetent.

[Non Sequitur]

It's impossible (usually) for a school to be absolutely certain how many hours you will be teaching. They are advertising waaay ahead of semester start and probably have only a sketchy idea of enrolments - at least in the fresher area.
The actual impact of 14, 16, 18 or 20 contact hours depends on the subject.
If it's Writing then factor in marking. If Oral, then there is no marking and little prep as your classes will be doing the same material.
I liked 16 when I taught, although 14 almost assured me of a 3-day weekend.
I did 20 for a few weeks to cover for a teacher who went home sick. That was a bit much.
Best

[Deats]

But you can't sign a contract not knowing if it is 14 or 20. They should say a maximum of 20, then if you work 14 it is a bonus. Or if they say 14, then you work 20, you get 6 hours overtime. 14 or 20 is a big difference - 30%. More importantly it's the difference between working 3 or 4 days a week or working a 5 day week. Nothing more annoying than having 1 lesson smack in the middle of the day.

[Non Sequitur]

[Deats]

The first contract I signed at a uni in China (2009) said 16-18 hours a week. It was signed in April for a late August start. I only ever worked a max of 16 hours. Some weeks/semesters I worked less.

My next contract in Russia (2013) stated a MINIMUM working time of 45 hours a week. If I worked over 50 I was paid overtime. 45-50 was the norm. Some weeks I worked 40, then the next week I did 50 - as long as the average was 45.

I'm going back to China in Aug/Sep and have been offered a lot of jobs all of which clearly state working hours. Every uni that I have received a contract from (about 6 I think) have clearly stated the hours (maximum) that I'd have to work.

If you sign a contract without knowing the hours you must be crazy. Every institution knows exactly how many hours they want in the contract as it is the same every year. It has nothing to do with class schedules. They have a course(s) that need to be taught, period. If they come up with additional work then you get paid overtime.

I have NEVER and would NEVER sign a contract without knowing my EXACT MAXIMUM working hours and my EXACT pay for what I do. This not only applies to EFL but past jobs too.

If you know your maximum hours then this is worst case scenario. If you literally have no idea, they could give you 50 hours a week and you don't have a leg to stand on. In China they always refer to the contract when it suits them and if it isn't set in stone you WILL get screwed.

I have worked in China when I received a call in the morning and told I needed to teach a class in half an hour. Same goes in Russia. You have to be flexible. But I always want to know my max hours.

[happyinshangqiu]

An academic hour is 50 minutes, so you are doing - actually - 15 hours of actual teaching but 18 academic hours of teaching.

[Deats]

Actually an academic hour varies from uni to uni. I have been offered jobs with academic hours counting as 40mins, 45mins and 50mins.

This doesn't bother me.

But not knowing the difference between a max of 14 or 20 does.

Also, classes are almost always double periods so break times (I know it isn't working but you still have to be there) makes it a bit longer. Still, nothing to worry about.

[Non Sequitur]

[kev7161]

If one is worried about the difference between "hours" and "academic hours", this needs to be clarified in the contract before signing. You could have them change the word "hours" to "periods": Teacher will teach (up to) 20 periods per week. If the school is advertising 14 to 18 "hours", that could mean 16 to 20 periods per week (or more). The underlying message is clarify, clarify, clarify before signing the contract. Most schools can and will change the wording if requested.

[happyinshangqiu]