|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
BajaLaJaula
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 267
|
 Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Things that you may disagree with in KSA, are likely due to culture and not religion. In addition, the Saudis' interpretation of Islam is much different than the way the religion is practiced in other parts of the world.
We will never know if the teacher actually said those things...but I doubt that the students had him kicked out simply because he gave some them a zero. There must have been other things that he said or did that offended students over a period of time.
If he has a problem with Saudis (culture) or wahabism and expressed it to the students then it is best that he was fired. KSA is a very strict and repressive society and there is no such thing as Free Speech there.
------------
Last edited by BajaLaJaula on Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Of course, none of know what actually happened or was said in that classroom. If he did say it, he was, yes, an idiot... and fully deserved what he got. Their ball game, their field, their money... they get to make the rules. Don't like it? Don't go.
|
Perhaps not an idiot but severely agitated and overcome by what a Westerner would call Saudi culture. In spite of the appallingly and overwhelmingly idiotic aspects of their rules, ballgame, playing field, teachers need to stay focused on that cash at the end of the sewer line while dealing with all the floaters along the way, because in the end nobody comes to Saudi Arabia for any other reason than the cash.
Last edited by plumpy nut on Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kittylitty wrote: |
In the comments section for the article you find the following comments from people who know the professor:
| Quote: |
| It is unfortunate that so many people accept allegations as fact. I work at Laureate - the professor insists that the allegations are untrue. Management at Laureate knows that the students involved were angry with the teacher because he gave them zero on an exam for cheating. |
|
[truncated and omitted quotes]
The above says the instructor was very naïve. This is why teachers should be introduced to Asia in less disastrous places like high schools in Thailand etc. before being allowed to teach in Saudi Arabia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BajaLaJaula wrote: |
We will never know if the teacher actually said those things...but I doubt that the students had him kicked out simply because he gave some them a zero. There must have been other things that he said or did that offended students over a period of time.
- |
Are you sure about that? Would you say that Saudi Arabia is so much more civilized than the rest of the world? In my home country (which, granted, some would say is still far from civilized,) I spent three weeks in the intensive care unit of the hospital, followed by almost a year of reconstructive surgery and physical therapy, after being assaulted by a student for giving him a failing grade and "causing him to lose his visa." Truly, all I did was give the grade he deserved.
Of course, I have absolutely no idea of whether this teacher said what the students claimed. But I wouldn't doubt the possibility that students can seek retribution for a failing grade! 
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't be surprised if this was a result of students being failed. Of all the anti-Islamic rhetoric we hear, pilgrimages aren't exactly a common picking point  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1364
Location: Flying around the ME...
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kittylitty wrote: |
In the comments section for the article you find the following comments from people who know the professor:
| Quote: |
| I know the professor. He categorically denies the accusations of the students, but he hasn t been allowed to defend himself. Laureate couldn t have verified the students claims because Laureate hasn t interviewed the professor. It s as if he s automatically guilty without hearing his side of the story. The students are wrong in one respect: there are Muslims in the administration and many more in the faculty. We all work hard to foster an environment of respect for Islam and Saudi culture. |
| Quote: |
| It is unfortunate that so many people accept allegations as fact. I work at Laureate - the professor insists that the allegations are untrue. Management at Laureate knows that the students involved were angry with the teacher because he gave them zero on an exam for cheating. He also gave them zero and refused to accept plagiarized assignments. Cheating is so commonly tolerated at Laureate, that these students felt unfairly treated. Their accusations only came after getting caught cheating twice. |
|
[/quote]
Both of these explanations also sound believable, |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gulezar
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 483
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:20 am Post subject: His side |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Of course, none of know what actually happened or was said in that classroom. If he did say it, he was, yes, an idiot... and fully deserved what he got. Their ball game, their field, their money... they get to make the rules. Don't like it? Don't go.
But, there is also the chance that he said nothing of the sort and the student(s) made it up because they didn't like him... or misunderstood what he said. VS |
Exactly, the students' perspective is always accepted as the truth in each country. We haven't heard his side, which might have a broader appeal. In the meantime, one works in an environment in which one has a mental "hudud" as to what can be said or discussed. It exists everywhere in the Gulf, and I would venture to say, in all societies. Some places will support "Seek knowledge, even unto China," and others will take a different spin. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
This has absolutely nothing to do with free speech. Case in point, teachers in the US who make derogatory, racist, or sexist comments in a k-12 or university classroom get suspended or even terminated. It's a violation of policy; they can't claim they were exercising their right to free speech. Ditto for making such comments in the workplace. Frankly, it doesn't matter which country these incidents occur in. If there's a policy or law in place, employees are expected to abide by it if they want to keep getting that paycheck.
In the Saudi situation, I suspect the teacher made those comments. The students' decision to contact the press with a fabrication in order to get this man fired simply because some of them received a grade of zero is rather extreme and therefore, not believable. There's no info about what the investigation entailed, but it's likely the other students (those not part of the complaining group) and some of the instructor's colleagues were interviewed. Case closed. In hindsight, had the administration at Laureate initially responded to the students, perhaps the situation would not have escalated to the level that it did.
Going forward, it will be interesting to see what changes, if any, Laureate makes in terms of job requirements/qualifications, vetting job candidates, policy compliance, and/or the inclusion of an employee orientation on Saudi culture. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sicklyman
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 930
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nomad soul wrote: |
| This has absolutely nothing to do with free speech. Case in point, teachers in the US who make derogatory, racist, or sexist comments ... |
does it not? The problem in Saudi is that "respecting Saudi Arabia and Islam" is so often interpreted by students as not asking anything about why their religion and culture is the way it is. It's natural for anyone in a foreign culture to want to know the "whys" of their host nation. In Saudi though, it's the very act of asking why which is interpreted as offensive even if your question is perfectly innocent. It's this which can land the unwary in trouble, and this is about the freedom to ask enquiring questions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sicklyman wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| This has absolutely nothing to do with free speech. Case in point, teachers in the US who make derogatory, racist, or sexist comments ... |
does it not? The problem in Saudi is that "respecting Saudi Arabia and Islam" is so often interpreted by students as not asking anything about why their religion and culture is the way it is. It's natural for anyone in a foreign culture to want to know the "whys" of their host nation. In Saudi though, it's the very act of asking why which is interpreted as offensive even if your question is perfectly innocent. It's this which can land the unwary in trouble, and this is about the freedom to ask enquiring questions. |
I don't think Saudi students are the best source when it comes to discussing religion anyways...if I had a burning desire to know something regarding Islam I sure as heck wouldn't be asking any of my students. There are other easier, smarter ways to gaining such knowledge; it's called the internet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sicklyman
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 930
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cmp45 wrote: |
| I don't think Saudi students are the best source when it comes to discussing religion anyways...if I had a burning desire to know something regarding Islam I sure as heck wouldn't be asking any of my students. There are other easier, smarter ways to gaining such knowledge; it's called the internet. |
I wasn't referring specifically to Islam. And I'm not sure I'd agree that the "smarter" way to find out the cultural influences of a specific group of students we might be teaching is to go to the completely objective and absoluately comprehensive body of knowledge we know as the Internet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
1chunk
Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 123
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mysterious wrote: |
Good job.
Now I wish the others like him would also get fired. Including some on this forum. Some two faced people that diss and mock the religion and the calls for prayer, yet happily take the money that is offered to them and probably do a rubbish job at work, too.
And before people get all defensive.. some teachers are like this, not all. And it's a fact.
There are many people in the western countries who are qualified to come here and are Muslims and are desperate to come here, yet, when they are interviewed, by a non Muslim, the jobs can be harder to get. So much better if people like that got the jobs than people who have no respect for the country they live in and are only here for the money. |
I agree....Many non Muslim EFL teachers via recruitment companies that I've met/seen here are weird and clearly rejects in their own countries. They admit to being here often because of unemployment/measly jobs in the UK, USA or Canada etc and they can earn/save a lot more in KSA.
I was taught to be grateful at a young age and it's clear these ungrateful weirdos can learn a thing or two about appreciation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Willard
Joined: 11 Sep 2010
Posts: 251
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I knew people who worked for Laureate. They were an unhappy lot. In addition to teachers having problems for catching students cheating, the management also pressured teachers about being strict attendance. Frequently the attendance record is the one lever the teacher has with these students. I doubt that the teacher did anything wrong.
| MuscatGary wrote: |
| kittylitty wrote: |
In the comments section for the article you find the following comments from people who know the professor:
| Quote: |
| I know the professor. He categorically denies the accusations of the students, but he hasn t been allowed to defend himself. Laureate couldn t have verified the students claims because Laureate hasn t interviewed the professor. It s as if he s automatically guilty without hearing his side of the story. The students are wrong in one respect: there are Muslims in the administration and many more in the faculty. We all work hard to foster an environment of respect for Islam and Saudi culture. |
| Quote: |
| It is unfortunate that so many people accept allegations as fact. I work at Laureate - the professor insists that the allegations are untrue. Management at Laureate knows that the students involved were angry with the teacher because he gave them zero on an exam for cheating. He also gave them zero and refused to accept plagiarized assignments. Cheating is so commonly tolerated at Laureate, that these students felt unfairly treated. Their accusations only came after getting caught cheating twice. |
|
|
Both of these explanations also sound believable,[/quote] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 1chunk wrote: |
I was taught to be grateful at a young age and it's clear these ungrateful weirdos can learn a thing or two about appreciation. |
Yeah, I appreciate the $40,000 US, I'm not interested in your culture or well being, don't call me I'll call you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mysterious
Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 170
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| plumpy nut wrote: |
There never will be freedom of speech in the ME until they are colonized and the idea of free speech, regardless of what the Koran thinks, is forced down their mouths. |
Gee, how culturally sensitive of you. The Qur'aan may mean nothing to you, but it does to the Muslims. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
