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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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 Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:27 am Post subject: Re: Training to become a Teacher Trainer |
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| cassava wrote: |
| Exactly what do you mean by the "developing world"? This term reeks of the kind of ideological mumbo-jumbo currently in vogue in the lexicon of certain Western institutions. I suspect that you are in fact referring to "underdeveloped countries". |
I fail to see how a difference of the terms justifies many of your conclusions about the OP. Underdevelopment implies less than (or worse, subordinate), while the former implies an ongoing change. Both terms supplanted the usage of 1st and 3rd world nations.
Of course, this is all off-topic, but I thought esl_prof's observation provided some latitude.
I'm sympathetic to some criticism of some NGOs, and "bible-thumpers", and proponents of "free" versus "fair" trade (the last one being the most challenging to define and regulate), but to level such criticism against educators is a strange conclusion.
Maybe Sasha could help you out  |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Training to become a Teacher Trainer |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| I'm sympathetic to some criticism of some NGOs, and "bible-thumpers", and proponents of "free" versus "fair" trade (the last one being the most challenging to define and regulate), but to level such criticism against educators is a strange conclusion. |
Actually, it's a valid criticism of education in the all too many instances where education is used to reenforce Western hegemony over the developing world. The TESL/TEFL profession in that regard is especially problematic as it essentially came into being in the post-WWII era as a means of insuring Anglophone (namely U.S. and U.K.) hegemony over the rest of the world. Or, put differently, as the Western imperial powers were scrambling to rid themselves of their former colonies, the TEFL industry quickly became an important pillar of the Western (again, the U.S. and U.K.) neocolonial agenda.
Of course, numerous educators such as Paulo Freire and others have demonstrated that education can be done in ways that make it a powerful agent for social change. Unfortunately, very few practitioners of ESL have critically engaged those theories, let alone given much thought to how our profession is complicit with neocolonialism. (Graham Crookes, Elsa Auerbach, and Nina Wallerstein are a few exceptions that come to mind.) Sadly, many of us have been or still are foot soldiers for Western capitalism. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| Not I!!! |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Freire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed is canonical reading for many (if not most) American teachers if for no other reason than to present a program's liberality and a Marxist interpretation as corollary to John Dewey and Maria Montessori, or Jean Rousseau to go back even further.
The trouble I have in reading your response is a default position that, without an attention to critical pedagogy, education (and by extenstion educators) serves political and nefarious purposes.
| esl_prof wrote: |
| Actually, it's a valid criticism of education in the all too many instances where education is used to reenforce Western hegemony over the developing world. |
Were those instances named, I have few doubts we might find agreement, but as stated the argument is largely by metaphor, e.g., pillar and foot soldiers, and the supposition that capitalism is intrinsically oppressive. To that last point, I'll offer egalitarian goals are not readily realized in a world where both private property and a common weal are given agency.
All that aside, would you agree cassava's post is obliquely critical of the OP?
On Preview: Why, yes, Sasha, you. Do you believe cassava's post to be on or off the topic? |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Previews again...
Look, you are all wrong. The world divdes neatly into those nations which are progressive, like the Glorious Motherland, and those which are mired in reactionary piggieness. The latter is lead by the twin Anglo empires, and its evil spreads over many parts of the globe to exploit the agricultural and proletarian classes there. The terminology being used is all wrong. Call this the exploited world, and you'll be much closer to the real situation. Developed or developing? Both are idiotic.
And there is a lot to be saidfor the criticism of EFL as being little more than imperialism of the linguistic kind. Witness the attitude of many of thenso-called teachers who post on this very forum. Not only do they attempt to teach the barbarous natives English, they also engage them in challenges to 'think critically'. By which they seem to mean learning to accept the thought processes of their masters as more valid than their own. How often do we hear about 'free speech', the oppression of Islam or Confusionism on young minds, or the need to explain to the benighted foreigners how the democratic process works?
Pack the lot of them back home! No piggie exploitation wanted!
Hic! |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:15 am Post subject: |
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As entertaining as your response is...you failed to answer the question of topicality.
Cheers |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| There is no failure in the Workers' Paradise. There is just the difference between success and more success. |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| All that aside, would you agree cassava's post is obliquely critical of the OP? |
Well, let's just say it wasn't exactly the type of post that invited the OP to respectful dialogue over differing opinions. Something, unfortunately, that we could use a lot more of on these forums and, indeed, in public discourse, in general. And, I should add, something that I'm not always consistent at doing myself. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Are you in the progressive camp, Prof, or with the reactionaries?... |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| Are you in the progressive camp, Prof, or with the reactionaries?... |
What do you think, Comrade? |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I have to advise you that the Politburo is not convinced of your total commitment to the cause. Perhaps you could issue a statement affirming your Socialist ardour? |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| I have to advise you that the Politburo is not convinced of your total commitment to the cause. Perhaps you could issue a statement affirming your Socialist ardour? |
Evidently they haven't consulted their moles over at the Department of Homeland Security. If they had, they might be more convinced.
Speaking of full disclosure, what exactly does Cambridge pay you for promoting their products on these forums? |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm paid in kilos of sugar, specially imported from North America... |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| I'm paid in kilos of sugar, specially imported from North America... |
Sweet!!! |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Not oily! |
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